Discussion: Recruiting, etc.

[Vid_FISO]

Does this mean that TOP will actually fight wars now rather than hide behind the short-form games and one or maybe 2 two competitive CC wars/ year, or are most of these new signings lost to the clan community for several years to come, never to be involved?

[iAmCaffeine]

There are other clans who participate in as little as they do, why not call them all out?

[Vid_FISO]

There are other clans who participate in as little as they do, why not call them all out?

They haven't swallowed up 15 players in the last couple of days, most of which will never be seen again in a clan war.

[MagnusGreeol]

Does this mean that TOP will actually fight wars now rather than hide behind the short-form games and one or maybe 2 two competitive CC wars/ year, or are most of these new signings lost to the clan community for several years to come, never to be involved?

Mr. FISO,

That sounds a bit harsh? Playing smart and within our means is not hiding, Its climbing! And would you even imagine what venture ideas are floating around the TOP leadership and its family right now? Of course you wouldn't, Because we don't plan on going downstairs viewtopic.php?f=438&t=228303#p5051306, We are marching towards the roof! '')


ps- You have entered TOP recruitment thread, If you want a lil trash, We will give you some!

[edit]- But we can't give you too much trash, We are very busy right now! But Thank you! '')>

[Vid_FISO]

Fantasy ranking system that is completely anti-competitive, only OSA isn't too scared to fight a lower ranked clan as all you care about is being near the top of a system set up to protect the self-styled elite. In 4 years you've 'fought' 6 wars, whoopee do! You must be proud of yourselves!

[Extreme Ways]

Fantasy ranking system that is completely anti-competitive, only OSA isn't too scared to fight a lower ranked clan as all you care about is being near the top of a system set up to protect the self-styled elite. In 4 years you've 'fought' 6 wars, whoopee do! You must be proud of yourselves!

I agree with Vid that the fantasy ranking should be seen as a guideline for ranking clans, it's not the norm. I dont know anyone who is invested in clans (and not in TOP) that would rate TOP as a top2 clan right now.

That being said, TOFU doesnt play pickup wars either. We participate in the events we care about the most and think are the most important, CC and CL. I believe TOP does the same, however they never got far in CC so it that saves them 2 wars a year or so. Furthermore, warring lower rated clans isn't really interesting for absolute top clans. I dont know if you directed that comment to the whole of "topclans", but I will tell you that my wars with TOFU vs S&M and FOED have been my most enjoyable wars. Not just with TOFU, also with VDLL and KoRT. Mainly because the overall level of gameplay is very high and the wars get tense. When we play the second round of CC, this year vs ATL, we win 34-9. I dont know if that won or lost us rating points in D400, but it's safe to say that that war wasn't the most fun I had on CC because the difference in (team)skill is just so high...

[Vid_FISO]

Fantasy ranking system that is completely anti-competitive, only OSA isn't too scared to fight a lower ranked clan as all you care about is being near the top of a system set up to protect the self-styled elite. In 4 years you've 'fought' 6 wars, whoopee do! You must be proud of yourselves!

I agree with Vid that the fantasy ranking should be seen as a guideline for ranking clans, it's not the norm. I dont know anyone who is invested in clans (and not in TOP) that would rate TOP as a top2 clan right now.

That being said, TOFU doesnt play pickup wars either. We participate in the events we care about the most and think are the most important, CC and CL. I believe TOP does the same, however they never got far in CC so it that saves them 2 wars a year or so. Furthermore, warring lower rated clans isn't really interesting for absolute top clans. I dont know if you directed that comment to the whole of "topclans", but I will tell you that my wars with TOFU vs S&M and FOED have been my most enjoyable wars. Not just with TOFU, also with VDLL and KoRT. Mainly because the overall level of gameplay is very high and the wars get tense. When we play the second round of CC, this year vs ATL, we win 34-9. I dont know if that won or lost us rating points in D400, but it's safe to say that that war wasn't the most fun I had on CC because the difference in (team)skill is just so high...

Might be worth a mod taking some of these posts and creating a new thread out of them (if you don't know how I can walk you through it).

I can understand to a point what you're saying about high level competition, but it's not really is it? It's been well documented over the years that certain individuals (of a very high standard) have controlled their team mates and in some cases accessed games they were not involved with to control those too. You yourself said to me a few years ago in a game 'Extreme Ways: normally I'd be responsible for a team of 4 and all of their moves, so I think for about 5-10 minutes about a move'. Clearly making it about the best few individuals in a clan and not about team play whatsoever.

TOP have taken on 15 clan members, some good team players in there without a doubt, but wasn't it Innyaface that they actually wanted above all else? Someone that can control a team on specific maps? How many of the other 14 will get many clan games in a squad of 45 in years to come? Especially as they're not involved in anything other than 'official' competition?

Some very high ranked players due to riding the coat-tails of their 1/2/3 map experts within the clan have proven to be very poor players without that expert back-up.

Is that what people want from clans? Get a high rank from only following instructions from others? Not to be trusted to make your own decisions whether good or bad? To be associated with a fantasy ranking system that only serves to make competition unwanted?

Take the specialists out of any given map against a crap clan like ours and see how well the rest do without being spoon fed each and every move when they have to think for themselves.

[Extreme Ways]

I am going to respond to this in more detail in PM, but I can assure you that TOFU, FALL, very likely FOED and KoRT when I was in it, do not play according to single leader and clueless followers.

[MagnusGreeol]

I am going to respond to this in more detail in PM, but I can assure you that TOFU, FALL, very likely FOED and KoRT when I was in it, do not play according to single leader and clueless followers.

If it eases your minds to think this, so be it, if it makes you sleep better at night, Your welcome!

Fact is, every war fought in history has had chain of command, Also field calls!

There are teams that don't have to chat strat cuz their all on same page

There are teams where if a corporal specializes on a certain map, He can lead Colonels and Generals who may not be familiar, and The Colonels/Generals without ego will follow instructions/give ideas input, Like all teams that are led, Members also ask questions and are able to still make suggestions!

Teams where one person has mastered a map and others don't really know it, Do you let them cluelessly take turn, Or instruct them on what to do so they learn?

So many variances of team play, kinda unfair to just ASSUME!?


Can we move this somewhere else? This is TOP recruitment thread, Not "How TOP operates" thread!?


\MGM/

[Vid_FISO]

Teams where one person has mastered a map and others don't really know it, Do you let them cluelessly take turn, Or instruct them on what to do so they learn?

So you prefer to play teams with one knowledgeable person and 3 with none that will blindly follow orders rather than actually have 4 that know how to play the map in the first place? Fairly shit set up for a TOP clan don't you think???

[Arama86n]

People have been spinning that theory for years Fiso. Apparently TOFU was going to collapse after CC4 because CoF left us, and he was the only good player in the clan, and used to run all the games.... bla bla bla. We came 2nd in CC5, and won CC6, without our fearless leader.
Similar things have been said about KORT and Josko, well guess what, S&M are doing damn fine without him because they have a deep reserve of extremely competent players.

Are there dominant/ star players players in the top clans that have a tendency to "take over" games they are in and run the show? Sure. But I assure you, members of TOFU as a general rule will participate in strategy discussions in most games they play. And anyone that doesn't is quickly shown the door.
Four heads are better than one, and we sure as hell couldn't win the cup blindly following the directions of a few individuals. It's a team effort.
Jesus...

You know... you've annoyed me. And only partly your fault. It's the spark that lights the dry hay. Too many ignorant people have talked too much shit over the years.

So here a crazy idea. A nice little daydream that just maybe we could make happen:

How about a war between TOFU and FSC. After the Cup-Final is finished. But wait for the kicker:
Our three "best" players, as you choose them, will sit the war out. You know.. the people that are running the games for us, telling us what to do.
And you can meet the other 85%. The mindless sheep...
It will further be stipulated that the people you choose will not be allowed to sit in the war. And you will have my word as a gentleman that they will not in any way advise the rest of us.

Some very high ranked players due to riding the coat-tails of their 1/2/3 map experts within the clan have proven to be very poor players without that expert back-up.

Is that what people want from clans? Get a high rank from only following instructions from others? Not to be trusted to make your own decisions whether good or bad? To be associated with a fantasy ranking system that only serves to make competition unwanted?

By God Sir, if I ever the gauntlet thrown down.
How about it? If you agree, I will put the request to my clan.

[MagnusGreeol]

Teams where one person has mastered a map and others don't really know it, Do you let them cluelessly take turn, Or instruct them on what to do so they learn?

So you prefer to play teams with one knowledgeable person and 3 with none that will blindly follow orders rather than actually have 4 that know how to play the map in the first place? Fairly shit set up for a TOP clan don't you think???

No, cuz it teaches others how to play. Any other questions?

I'm asking nicely to stop turning this recruitment thread into a "How TOP operates thread", Please.

[Vid_FISO]

By God Sir, if I ever the gauntlet thrown down.
How about it? If you agree, I will put the request to my clan.

Only if Extreme Ways runs it and I wouldn't dream of depriving any of your players of their crutches, just need someone that's much better than me at running a war from our side

[Vid_FISO]

Teams where one person has mastered a map and others don't really know it, Do you let them cluelessly take turn, Or instruct them on what to do so they learn?

So you prefer to play teams with one knowledgeable person and 3 with none that will blindly follow orders rather than actually have 4 that know how to play the map in the first place? Fairly shit set up for a TOP clan don't you think???

No, cuz it teaches others how to play. Any other questions?

I'm asking nicely to stop turning this recruitment thread into a "How TOP operates thread", Please.

BTW - quite happy to play Antartica

[Arama86n]

By God Sir, if I ever the gauntlet thrown down.
How about it? If you agree, I will put the request to my clan.

Only if Extreme Ways runs it and I wouldn't dream of depriving any of your players of their crutches, just need someone that's much better than me at running a war from our side

You were raving on about people riding the coattails of a few map specialists/ of a few top players running the show etc
Thus the veto's are sort of the point. You get to take away whoever you think is running the games, and see for yourself how good or bad the rest of us are without them.

I'm sure I can convince EW to run it. No clue if I can convince the rest of the clan though. We're always stretched thin, burnout is always a worry and players don't grow on trees. (we would have to run the war parallel to the cup)
I'll get back to you via PM after I see what the clan thinks.

Sorry TOP for my part in hijacking, hopefully an entertaining read though in a time when any forum action is surely a blessing, no?

[iAmCaffeine]

Without wanting to cause offence, all I see here are gripes from the leader of a below average clan who doesn't fully understand what it takes to run a top 10 or top 5 clan.

[Vid_FISO]

Without wanting to cause offence, all I see here are gripes from the leader of a below average clan who doesn't fully understand what it takes to run a top 10 or top 5 clan.

Yeah, you'd be surprised what I can envisage, you completely miss the point, but never mind, wouldn't expect any better from you. When's our war going to happen???

[Lindax]

Ok guys, can we stop using this thread for discussions about different issues? You can discuss those in the general clan forum.

TOP has asked a few times, in a friendly manner, to take it somewhere else. Please respect their recruitment thread.

Thanks,

Lx

[Vid_FISO]

Ok guys, can we stop using this thread for discussions about different issues? You can discuss those in the general clan forum.

TOP has asked a few times, in a friendly manner, to take it somewhere else. Please respect their recruitment thread.

Thanks,

Lx

Can you just pull the posts out that shouldn't be here to a new thread please, I can explain how if you don't know how php works.

[Lindax]

Ok guys, can we stop using this thread for discussions about different issues? You can discuss those in the general clan forum.

TOP has asked a few times, in a friendly manner, to take it somewhere else. Please respect their recruitment thread.

Thanks,

Lx

Can you just pull the posts out that shouldn't be here to a new thread please, I can explain how if you don't know how php works.

I know how to do that, but thanks for the offer, lol.

Lx

[Lindax]

Thread split and moved.

Feel free to continue the discussion here.

Lx

[Vid_FISO]

Thread split and moved.

Feel free to continue the discussion here.

Lx

Thank you very much!

[JPlo64]

Without wanting to cause offence, all I see here are gripes from the leader of a below average clan who doesn't fully understand what it takes to run a top 10 or top 5 clan.

Yeah, you'd be surprised what I can envisage, you completely miss the point, but never mind, wouldn't expect any better from you. When's our war going to happen???

want to war with FOED?
lets set it up!

[Arama86n]

Well, I would have loved to give you a shot at facing a top-clan minus it's most prominent players, to prove to you that your views that a few map experts/ leading figures are all there is to these clans was gravely erroneous . But unfortunately that will not be TOFU at this time.
I was hoping that there would at least be some enthusiasm for what I felt was a nifty little clan-war idea, but nope.
I was told to take my temperature, call in sick, and get some sleep

As it's approaching midnight I will be taking the last bit of that advice anyway.
Sabre-rattling on a Monday night. One never knows what the day will bring.

Toodles

P.S. -Sign up for the Cup Mr Fiso. 1/19th chance we'll get our Monday-night day dream. Minus the veto's

Edit: Looks like FOED will stand proxy for me Have fun

[Extreme Ways]

Question though, is this meant to be a merge between clans or just recruitment? Everybody made it sound like it was just recruitment.