who was the greatest american president

[SultanOfSurreal]

included are 12 of the most common responses to the question. if someone else, or even if one of these, explain.

you can probably guess my vote.

[GabonX]

In terms of service for the country, Washington hands down.

In terms of developing our culture and philosophy Jefferson.

[InkL0sed]

I had a thread on this once!

I think Washington is overrated (not to say he was bad, but there you go).

I'd go with Lincoln first off. I don't think anybody else could have possibly managed the Civil War as well as he did. FDR comes in a close second.

[SultanOfSurreal]

I'd go with Lincoln first off. I don't think anybody else could have possibly managed the Civil War as well as he did. FDR comes in a close second.

i am just the other way around, myself. FDR's handling of the depression and WWII was extraordinary, and while in both -- certainly in the latter -- he had able help, he was really a leading figure without whom history may have turned out very differently. imagine a john nance garner or a hoover dealing with wwii... ugh.

to be honest though both lincoln and roosevelt made some pretty serious violations of the constitution. FDR moreso than Lincoln, I think, but neither was a saint by any means. they used government more as a tool than served it as a venerated institution.

[xxtig12683xx]

Where is the g.w bush option?

[InkL0sed]

I'd go with Lincoln first off. I don't think anybody else could have possibly managed the Civil War as well as he did. FDR comes in a close second.

i am just the other way around, myself. FDR's handling of the depression and WWII was extraordinary, and while in both -- certainly in the latter -- he had able help, he was really a leading figure without whom history may have turned out very differently. imagine a john nance garner or a hoover dealing with wwii... ugh.

to be honest though both lincoln and roosevelt made some pretty serious violations of the constitution. FDR moreso than Lincoln, I think, but neither was a saint by any means. they used government more as a tool than served it as a venerated institution.

It's true that both did some pretty unconstitutional things, but I think Lincoln was more justified, which is one reason why I put him higher than FDR. I mean, the Depression and WWII were both pretty serious, but I don't think even both of them together were quite as an existential threat to the country's very existence. And when you're literally trying to save the country from falling apart, temporarily suspending habeas corpus is pretty understandable. It kind of reminds me of the Romans' concept of the ideal temporary farmer-dictator in times of war, like Cincinnatus, who after the war was over would immediately cede his power to the Senate and return to his farm.

[pimpdave]

I'd go with Lincoln first off. I don't think anybody else could have possibly managed the Civil War as well as he did. FDR comes in a close second.

i am just the other way around, myself. FDR's handling of the depression and WWII was extraordinary, and while in both -- certainly in the latter -- he had able help, he was really a leading figure without whom history may have turned out very differently. imagine a john nance garner or a hoover dealing with wwii... ugh.

Wait. The Great Depression was huge. I'm not going to downplay it's significance, or the significance of WWII. First of all, WWII had a huge impact on the world. But way more so the world not pertaining to US sovereign territory. Yeah, it catapulted us to superpower status, but we really sat most of that war out. Especially in the European theater. FDR may have been clever by allowing Russia to bleed itself white dealing with the most horrible, depraved evil empire in history (if by nothing else, than by pure body count, certainly the most devastating), but that's a lot different than a large chunk of one's territory declaring war on oneself and then assaulting one's forts, seizing one's ports and declaring untenable tariffs, severely impacting one's economy.

I mean, come on, a civil war. There is nothing more taxing or challenging to a leader. Plus, don't forget, the economy in the USA had suffered serious depressions before, in fact, about every 15 years. What made the Great Depression so big was that it was global, not just limited to the continental USA.

But at the end of the day, the greatest President is still an unanswerable question. It's not a Valid Comparison.

[JJM]

I said Teddy Roosevelt. It was a tough decission because Calvin Coolidge and Zachory Taylor did quiet well to.

[b.k. barunt]

I'd go with Lincoln first off. I don't think anybody else could have possibly managed the Civil War as well as he did. FDR comes in a close second.

You're a Brit, so you're excused for such a predictable error in judgement.

Lincoln is THE example of how Americans can be easily manipulated and snowed into believing anything. His PR men took his down home workinmanwhomadeitgood image and turned him into an American icon. This is the ass clown who denied the seceding states their constitutional rights and set the stage for Federalism to take over once and for all.

Managed the Civil War? He started the fooking thing. The worst part of it is his hypocrisy on the slavery issue. Here's the wanker who just enacted the Fugitive Slave Act, where you could be hanged for aiding and abetting an escaped slave, and he needs an emotional issue to galvanize the gullible public, so what does he hit on? That's right - slavery becomes the "reason" for the Civil War, and so it remains to this day.

The Constitution of our country gave any of the original 13 colonies the right to secede if they saw fit. The south had been getting a raw deal for years in the finacial spectrum, and finally Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Texas, etc. decided to secede. Lincoln, a Federalist, said f*ck the Constitution, this Union must be preserved. Since then that flag has been the flag of the oppressor, and stands for bullshit. f*ck Lincoln. Thomas Jefferson was the president who did the most to stay America on the course it was meant to be on.


Honibaz

[SultanOfSurreal]

Managed the Civil War? He started the fooking thing.

yes damn that lincoln, why did he have to attack fort sumter

[InkL0sed]

I'd go with Lincoln first off. I don't think anybody else could have possibly managed the Civil War as well as he did. FDR comes in a close second.

You're a Brit, so you're excused for such a predictable error in judgement.

Close; I'm a New Yorker.

[JJM]

My top 15 List would be
1. Teddy Roosevelt
2. Lincoln or Coolidge
3. Lincoln or Coolidge
4. Truman or Reagen
5. Truman or Reagen
6. Taylor or Jefferson
7. Taylor or Jefferson
8. James Madison
9. Benjamin Harrison
10. Cleveland
11. G. W. Bush
12. Eisenhower
13. G. H. W. Bush
14. Wasington
15. McKinley

[PLAYER57832]

Where is the g.w bush option?

Even if you were serious, it is far too soon to truly judge his impact. Even Reagan is a stretch.

[JJM]

I'd go with Lincoln first off. I don't think anybody else could have possibly managed the Civil War as well as he did. FDR comes in a close second.

i am just the other way around, myself. FDR's handling of the depression and WWII was extraordinary, and while in both -- certainly in the latter -- he had able help, he was really a leading figure without whom history may have turned out very differently. imagine a john nance garner or a hoover dealing with wwii... ugh.

to be honest though both lincoln and roosevelt made some pretty serious violations of the constitution. FDR moreso than Lincoln, I think, but neither was a saint by any means. they used government more as a tool than served it as a venerated institution.

I simply don't like FDR all that much. Research the FDR court-packing scheme and you will know what I mean.

[InkL0sed]

Taylor? That's a new one on me. Why was he so good?

[SultanOfSurreal]

My top 15 List would be
1. Teddy Roosevelt
2. Lincoln or Coolidge
3. Lincoln or Coolidge
4. Truman or Reagen
5. Truman or Reagen
6. Taylor or Jefferson
7. Taylor or Jefferson
8. James Madison
9. Benjamin Harrison
10. Cleveland
11. G. W. Bush
12. Eisenhower
13. G. H. W. Bush
14. Wasington
15. McKinley

did you just pull presidents' names out of a hat or something

and yes i know all about the court packing scheme, it was dumb and awful and FDR was rightly walloped in washington for it. that goes double for the internment of american citizens, sans the walloping he so richly deserved. however his broader legacy is one of social and economic progressivism that so indelibly changed the arc of american history even reagan couldn't completely destroy its influence. he renewed the social contract between the government and the governed and dragged the US kicking and screaming into the modern era. the only regret i have is that he and his successor couldn't fully implement all of their social programs, which included universal healthcare. 70 years later and we still can't get this shit right.

[JJM]

My top 15 List would be
1. Teddy Roosevelt
2. Lincoln or Coolidge
3. Lincoln or Coolidge
4. Truman or Reagen
5. Truman or Reagen
6. Taylor or Jefferson
7. Taylor or Jefferson
8. James Madison
9. Benjamin Harrison
10. Cleveland
11. G. W. Bush
12. Eisenhower
13. G. H. W. Bush
14. Wasington
15. McKinley

did you just pull presidents' names out of a hat or something

Nope. Ask me about any one of them and I will give you an answer.

[InkL0sed]

And seriously, Coolidge is second or third? That just makes no sense. He's arguably just as bad as Hoover.

[SultanOfSurreal]

And seriously, Coolidge is second or third? That just makes no sense. He's arguably just as bad as Hoover.

arguably? more like is.

so jjm, what's so great about benjamin harrison?

[JJM]

And seriously, Coolidge is second or third? That just makes no sense. He's arguably just as bad as Hoover.

Ok. Facts are facts and under Coolidge we had a record high economic groth rate of over 7% a year. Many argue he is awful because he left us 16 trillion dollars in dedt but when he took office we were 23 trillion dollars in dedt so he took us 7 trillion dollars out of dedt in 6 years. He also signed the Indian Citizenship act and the thing that I admire most about him is the way he delt with the Boston police strike when he was Govoner of Massachutess.

[JJM]

And seriously, Coolidge is second or third? That just makes no sense. He's arguably just as bad as Hoover.

arguably? more like is.

so jjm, what's so great about benjamin harrison?

Benjamin Harrison was deeply honest. He was probably one of the most honest presidents we have ever had. He also made a smart decission signing the Mckinly Tariff.

[SultanOfSurreal]

And seriously, Coolidge is second or third? That just makes no sense. He's arguably just as bad as Hoover.

arguably? more like is.

so jjm, what's so great about benjamin harrison?

Benjamin Harrison was deeply honest. He was probably one of the most honest presidents we have ever had. He also made a smart decission signing the Mckinly Tariff.

if honesty makes a good president then you'd better put Jimmy Carter in the top slot

the whole of B. harrison's tenure from what i have learned (which is admittedly not a whole lot) is that it was mediocre at best, inept at worst

[JJM]

And seriously, Coolidge is second or third? That just makes no sense. He's arguably just as bad as Hoover.

arguably? more like is.

so jjm, what's so great about benjamin harrison?

Benjamin Harrison was deeply honest. He was probably one of the most honest presidents we have ever had. He also made a smart decission signing the Mckinly Tariff.

if honesty makes a good president then you'd better put Jimmy Carter in the top slot

the whole of B. harrison's tenure from what i have learned (which is admittedly not a whole lot) is that it was mediocre at best, inept at worst

Carter=honest just about half a year ago he endorsed a crook? And under his administration Inflation was very high.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Carter=honest just about half a year ago he endorsed a crook. And under his administration Inflation was very high.

yes blame carter for the scarcity of natural resources when opec went on strike. meanwhile reagan's voodoo economics saved america, right?

PS seriously loling at the 4 votes for reagan here. 2 more and he'll overtake lincoln. god this place is full of idiots

[JJM]

Carter=honest just about half a year ago he endorsed a crook. And under his administration Inflation was very high.

yes blame carter for the scarcity of natural resources when opec went on strike. meanwhile reagan's voodoo economics saved america, right?

PS seriously loling at the 4 votes for reagan here. 2 more and he'll overtake lincoln. god this place is full of idiots

Reagen handeld the Airport workers strike tremendously well. His Economics were smart to.