The Third Crusade [Quenched] Revamping

[Ogrecrusher]

Aha ok, well don't forget to fix the typo, it's annoying, there's one on the Scotland map that they still haven't fixed, boo.
Also, it seems to me the problem with the objective is more that the Manual deploy mode is massively broken. Ah well.

[Duality.]

Either this is a problem with The Third Crusade, or Clickable Maps. When using CM, if you're attacking to or from Corsica & Sardinia, it doesn't work and you have to use the drop-down menus. Don't know what's up.

[pamoa]

CONGRATULATION
this is a great map
a very hard gameplay to master
but a graphic masterpiece

[AndrewB]

Either this is a problem with The Third Crusade, or Clickable Maps. When using CM, if you're attacking to or from Corsica & Sardinia, it doesn't work and you have to use the drop-down menus. Don't know what's up.

with CM, cannot handle the special characters in the XML.

Same problem with CM on England 2 map.

Misspell in XML will be fixed.

But I'd rather discuss the victory conditions more... They are very critical to this game play.

[ender516]

Either this is a problem with The Third Crusade, or Clickable Maps. When using CM, if you're attacking to or from Corsica & Sardinia, it doesn't work and you have to use the drop-down menus. Don't know what's up.

I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that the "&" in the territory name is the problem. At first I was going to blame Clickable Maps, but then I read the XML 1.0 Specification Section 2.4 Character Data and Markup, to wit:

The ampersand character (&) and the left angle bracket (<) MUST NOT appear in their literal form, except when used as markup delimiters, or within a comment, a processing instruction, or a CDATA section. If they are needed elsewhere, they MUST be escaped using either numeric character references or the strings " & " and " < " respectively. The right angle bracket (>) may be represented using the string " > ", and MUST, for compatibility, be escaped using either " > " or a character reference when it appears in the string " ]]> " in content, when that string is not marking the end of a CDATA section.

We can't blame Clickable Maps too much for failing to work around ill-formed XML. Other maps have the same problem. British Isles 2 and Oceania come to mind, but there may be more. If the site itself was fussier, these would not work at all and would have been straightened out before these maps made it out of beta. Since we are still in beta here, there is still an opportunity to correct this easily.

I intend to post a bug report regarding this problem as found in other maps but I have to decide whether to make separate reports to each map thread, or one overriding one which the site could implement on maps already quenched.

[AndrewB]

Either this is a problem with The Third Crusade, or Clickable Maps. When using CM, if you're attacking to or from Corsica & Sardinia, it doesn't work and you have to use the drop-down menus. Don't know what's up.

I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that the "&" in the territory name is the problem. At first I was going to blame Clickable Maps, but then I read the XML 1.0 Specification Section 2.4 Character Data and Markup, to wit:

The ampersand character (&) and the left angle bracket (<) MUST NOT appear in their literal form, except when used as markup delimiters, or within a comment, a processing instruction, or a CDATA section. If they are needed elsewhere, they MUST be escaped using either numeric character references or the strings " & " and " < " respectively. The right angle bracket (>) may be represented using the string " > ", and MUST, for compatibility, be escaped using either " > " or a character reference when it appears in the string " ]]> " in content, when that string is not marking the end of a CDATA section.

We can't blame Clickable Maps too much for failing to work around ill-formed XML. Other maps have the same problem. British Isles 2 and Oceania come to mind, but there may be more. If the site itself was fussier, these would not work at all and would have been straightened out before these maps made it out of beta. Since we are still in beta here, there is still an opportunity to correct this easily.

I intend to post a bug report regarding this problem as found in other maps but I have to decide whether to make separate reports to each map thread, or one overriding one which the site could implement on maps already quenched.

Before calling someones XML ill-formed, you have to check your claim first.

In the actual XML for this map located here:

http://www.conquerclub.com/maps/Third_Crusade.xml

the name is defined accordingly to the XML 1.0 specs PROPERLY:
<name>Corsica & Sardinia</name>

[Kabanellas]

I'm gathering up everyone experiences, Andrew's and my own, of course. And this is what I'm purposing on:

-making mandatory to hold both Granada and The Vatican to achieve victory. One would have to hold 5 regions to win the game now
-increasing starting troops in London from 3 to 6
-decreasing Constantinople, Seleucia and Venice neutral troops to 3 only
-decreasing Tyre neutral troops to 4

..and that's about it, for now

K

[luxCRUSADER]

I'm gathering up everyone experiences, Andrew's and my own, of course. And this is what I'm purposing on:

-making mandatory to hold both Granada and The Vatican to achieve victory. One would have to hold 5 regions to win the game now
-increasing starting troops in London from 3 to 6
-decreasing Constantinople, Seleucia and Venice neutral troops to 3 only
-decreasing Tyre neutral troops to 4

..and that's about it, for now

K

I have finished a game and am near done finishing some more. I am your biggest fan right now of this map and as luxCRUSADER at CC I agree with the proposed changes that you talk about above.... now let me tell you how I really feel ........(see below)



I AM STILL IN HEAVEN ........................ I LOVE YOUR MAP !!! ... YOU ARE A FREAKIN GENIUS !!! ... I WAS GOING TO MAKE A MAP ON THE CRUSADES - AND I AM SOOOOO RELIEVED THAT I DON'T HAVE TO FINISH WHAT I STARTED ... LOL .....

I AM ALSO SO DAMN HAPPY FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOURSELF WHO WALKS INTO THIS MAP FOUNDRY FORUM AND PUTS A MAP IN 6 MONTHS AHEAD OF SOME OF THE SNOOBS HERE AT CC (I WILL NEVER MENTION NAMES OF THE 3 PEOPLE THAT STUCK IT TO ME HERE AT CC WHEN I TRIED TO MAKE A MAP) BUT IT FEELS DAMN GOOD TO SEE YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS STAND UP IN FRONT OF THEIR FACE !

wooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!!

INSTEAD OF COMING ONTO YOUR THREADED FORUM AND SAYING: WOW - WHAT A GREAT MAP ! ... INSTEAD THEY CONTINUE TO SQUALL IN JEALOUSLY OF YOUR TALENTS !

I AM CURRENTLY IN 66 ACTIVE AND AWAITING GAMES ON YOUR MAP ALONE !!!!

SORRY FOR THE CAPS - BUT THAT'S THE PERSON I AM !!! IF YOU WERE IN FRONT OF ME - I WOULD GIVE YOU THE TRADITIONAL EUROPEAN EXPRESSION OF WELCOME MIXED WITH MY OVERZEALOUS EXPRESSION OF APPRECIATION FOR YOUR BRAIN AND ITS ABILITY TO PUT TOGETHER THIS KIND OF MAP !

THE ONLY THING THAT PISSES ME OFF RIGHT NOW ... IS THAT I DON'T HAVE A TURN LEFT TO MAKE A MOVE IN A GAME OF YOUR "THIRD CRUSADES" MAP ! I CAN'T WAIT TO BE IN OVER 200 GAMES ON THE CRUSADE MAP ALONE !

Sincerely Thanks for the map ALOT of people are getting excited about it

L8R
luxCRUSADER

[Kabanellas]

woooooww you left me speechless!! I have no words to show you my appreciation . I'm really happy that my main goal of making this map was achieved - making people spend some good moments playing a game that I love!

[the.killing.44]

ALALALALAL THIS MAP IS GOD

Jeez…

I don't like making other religious points needed to be held. More starting positions should be part of the victory condition; they're much harder to get.

[luxCRUSADER]

ALALALALAL THIS MAP IS GOD

@ "the.killing.44" ... YOU HAVE MISS QUOTED ME ... No where have I said in quote ALALALALAL THIS MAP IS GOD .... CLARIFY YOUR REASON cuz I fail to see the humor ...

At any rate ... please apologize or face further action by me ... your apology must be here unless you do the smart thing and DELETE your post for reasons of misquoting me ... I never said: "this the map is GOD "

You will be copied with this message on your wall and in a PM and if a positive response is not received by you in the next 48 hours, I will follow up with the appropriate staff to deal with my grievance against you.

I am taking great offense to your suggestion that any object is GOD ... I am a Christian ... and if anyone made fun of another religion you would be held equally accountable ...

Smarten UP...

I know when to joke and have a good time ... sometimes jokes can be borderline rude ... the case with you is serious cuz ... you appear to have purposely misquoted me ...

Govern yourself accordinglly

@ Kabanellas: I am sorry that your threaded post is being littered with the garbage of others !

BOTTOM LINE: it is a dirty practice to misquote someone especially when religion is involved !

IN THE REAL WORLD YOU WOULD BE LIABLE AND SUED !!!

[Kabanellas]

The Killing, there's no reason for that kind of comments. And please, not on my thread.

[Raskholnikov]

Lux,

No he wouldn't be sued. He's a 15-year old high school kid. So he said something inappropriate. We all do at his age. Since we no longer stone or burn heretics of any age, let's just fogivre and forget.... You didn't have perfect judgement at 15 either, did you?

R

[AndrewB]

More starting positions should be part of the victory condition; they're much harder to get.

The "smart-ass" misquote aside, I'd like to comment on that suggestion.

With 8 starting positions, in the 2 player games each player will have 4 to start with.

So, unless we make it 5 starting position required then it is not going to fix anything in 2 players game...

But making it 5 starting position needed will kill the purpose of the objectives wins in any other type of the game. We might as well remove them altogether...

[ender516]

Either this is a problem with The Third Crusade, or Clickable Maps. When using CM, if you're attacking to or from Corsica & Sardinia, it doesn't work and you have to use the drop-down menus. Don't know what's up.

I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that the "&" in the territory name is the problem. At first I was going to blame Clickable Maps, but then I read the XML 1.0 Specification Section 2.4 Character Data and Markup, to wit:

The ampersand character (&) and the left angle bracket (<) MUST NOT appear in their literal form, except when used as markup delimiters, or within a comment, a processing instruction, or a CDATA section. If they are needed elsewhere, they MUST be escaped using either numeric character references or the strings " & " and " < " respectively. The right angle bracket (>) may be represented using the string " > ", and MUST, for compatibility, be escaped using either " > " or a character reference when it appears in the string " ]]> " in content, when that string is not marking the end of a CDATA section.

We can't blame Clickable Maps too much for failing to work around ill-formed XML. Other maps have the same problem. British Isles 2 and Oceania come to mind, but there may be more. If the site itself was fussier, these would not work at all and would have been straightened out before these maps made it out of beta. Since we are still in beta here, there is still an opportunity to correct this easily.

I intend to post a bug report regarding this problem as found in other maps but I have to decide whether to make separate reports to each map thread, or one overriding one which the site could implement on maps already quenched.

Before calling someones XML ill-formed, you have to check your claim first.

In the actual XML for this map located here:

http://www.conquerclub.com/maps/Third_Crusade.xml

the name is defined accordingly to the XML 1.0 specs PROPERLY:
<name>Corsica & Sardinia</name>

Whoops, my bad, you are right. I had opened that very link in Firefox, which displayed the XML with the following header:

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.

When I look at the XML that way, the ampersands appear naked. But when I use View->Page Source, I can see that they are legal. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. In my defense, I suspect I would have found my error this evening when I downloaded all the source XML files to search them for naked ampersands. So now I have to go set the story straight in the Clickable Maps thread.

[luxCRUSADER]

Lux,

No he wouldn't be sued. He's a 15-year old high school kid. So he said something inappropriate. We all do at his age. Since we no longer stone or burn heretics of any age, let's just fogivre and forget.... You didn't have perfect judgement at 15 either, did you?

R

... ... I hear ya m8 ... ... I have no problem forgiving this one simply cuz of his age, which he posts is 14 ... couple years older than my son ... and younger than my oldest daughter ... He really should take a lesson from this experience, cuz in the line of work that I have been employed in for the last 20 years, I have had to deal with people getting badly "tuned-up"/ beat- up & even shot in the head for poking fun of RELIGION/ religious figures ... And YES - in this forum- he can't be sued- but in the real world where people PURPOSELY MISQUOTE another to defame the Character, people do get sued.

I should have taken a look at his profile before I wrote what I did ... if I knew he was a youth ... I would have toned down the language ... I thought he was of mature age ... and his stellar high rank is years beyond his youth (congrats "the.killing.44" on that one !)

I consider this whole matter done and water under the bridge ... as far as I am concerned: THIS CASE IS CLOSED !


... Please outta respect for this forum and Map Maker: 'Kabanellas' ...NO MORE TALK ON THIS SUBJECT
But if you can't resist and must reply: PM or e-mail me ONLY !!! Respect for 'Kabanellas' ... the links for the PM and E-mail are literally a couple of inches away from you now- underneath my avatar of this post ! ... RESPECT ....

Besides I would rather much talk about this amazing map, which has been very creatively put together ...

And compliments to those involved in the MAP FOUNDRY BUSINESS for expediting this map to its completion without the arguably excessive time that it takes to get a map onto the "assembly line" lol

Any idea when the new proposed changes to this map might take effect ?

Cheers !

L8R
luxCRUSADER

[00iCon]

I AM STILL IN HEAVEN ........................ I LOVE YOUR MAP !!! ... YOU ARE A FREAKIN GENIUS !!! ... I WAS GOING TO MAKE A MAP ON THE CRUSADES - AND I AM SOOOOO RELIEVED THAT I DON'T HAVE TO FINISH WHAT I STARTED ... LOL .....

I believe the second crusade is still up for grabs
or, if you know about the topic, just a single battle (like the one in the movie "Kingdom of Heaven") may make a good map.

[Raskholnikov]

The Second Crusade was a total disaster. There is no game there.

[luxCRUSADER]

I AM STILL IN HEAVEN ........................ I LOVE YOUR MAP !!! ... YOU ARE A FREAKIN GENIUS !!! ... I WAS GOING TO MAKE A MAP ON THE CRUSADES - AND I AM SOOOOO RELIEVED THAT I DON'T HAVE TO FINISH WHAT I STARTED ... LOL .....

I believe the second crusade is still up for grabs
or, if you know about the topic, just a single battle (like the one in the movie "Kingdom of Heaven") may make a good map.

The Second Crusade was a total disaster. There is no game there.

Well the map I have more than half way completed incorporates the use of Assassins much like in the video game "Assassins Creed", which if you listen to the myths contributed to the demise of the second Crusades ...where one way attacks occur much like in the map: "Map of Iraq" here at CC ! I have the map set 'squarely' on the 4 Crusader States' and have ships set in the sea from the major contributors from Europe ...

But I really can't stop playing on 'Kabanellas' map ! And playing is more fun than creating a map So until I get my mouse to stop left clicking on 'Kabanellas' map, I ain't gonna do maps for a while ... LOL ... Besides after seeing the mastery of 'Kabanellas' artwork, I would sooner give it to him to run away with if he wanted it ... or who knows maybe 'Kabanellas' has already got something like this on the back burner ... and after glancing, salivating and now playing on HIS map ... I'm in heaven

[demonfork]

Sweet map dude...I enjoyed playing it.

[AndrewB]

I'm gathering up everyone experiences, Andrew's and my own, of course. And this is what I'm purposing on:

-making mandatory to hold both Granada and The Vatican to achieve victory. One would have to hold 5 regions to win the game now
-increasing starting troops in London from 3 to 6
-decreasing Constantinople, Seleucia and Venice neutral troops to 3 only
-decreasing Tyre neutral troops to 4

..and that's about it, for now

K

I'd support all that.

One more suggestion. Bonus for the Almahondas seems high at +4. I'd decrease it to +3.

Also because London is starting with 6 now, I'd increase Wales neutrals to the total of 6.

[luxCRUSADER]

77 active and awaiting games on YOUR MAP: " THIRD CRUSADE" ... and counting

I CAN'T GET ENOUGH of your sensational map ... LOL ...off to make some more moves

THANK YOU Kabanellas !!!

[MrBenn]

I'm gathering up everyone experiences, Andrew's and my own, of course. And this is what I'm purposing on:

-making mandatory to hold both Granada and The Vatican to achieve victory. One would have to hold 5 regions to win the game now
-increasing starting troops in London from 3 to 6
-decreasing Constantinople, Seleucia and Venice neutral troops to 3 only
-decreasing Tyre neutral troops to 4

..and that's about it, for now

K

I'd support all that.

One more suggestion. Bonus for the Almahondas seems high at +4. I'd decrease it to +3.

Also because London is starting with 6 now, I'd increase Wales neutrals to the total of 6.

I'd be wary of increasing neutral values too much - it usually means that the territory is taken out of play rather than being an inconvenience (depending on card settings, of course).

I think adding territories to the objective makes sense. I wonder if it's worth switching the circles you've used for starting points, so that those on the victory condition have the extra dashed line around them - it would make them look a little bit more important...

[Jatekos]

I'm sorry, but I have to say that you have made major mistakes when selecting the names of the territories.

It seems to me that you have picked countries, regions and cities as well for territories. For a Hungarian, looking at the territory which you called Budapest is weird. It is the capital of Hungary, but it is only a fraction of the size of the territory you marked with it. Budapest is a city, while e.g. Bulgaria is a country.

It might be too late to do anything about it, but I think that much more consideration should have been given to the selection and the names of the territories. I like the colors and I understand that you have worked on it a lot, but currently the map seems to be very inconsistent and weird for me.

[Kabanellas]

That was COMPLETELY intentional. When a city is important for geographic and historical regions I chose to name the region after it.