The Dawn Of Ages - Quenched

[natty dread]

>> A) no new recruit should be allowed within a thousand miles of this map, and B) it would be really bitching if lack would eventually code BOB stuff into the site.

I agree with both points.

[Incandenza]

I maintain that the Dwarven Strongholds thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Can they attack long the red dotted line? Can their adjacent normal regions attack them?

[Kabanellas]

In the Large map I’m using for region names the Ringbearer font while in the legend the font is the Dumbledor Thin. Problem is that the Dumbledor font just won’t look good in the small version….

Anyway I’m rearranging some things and try to insert the same font in the Small map.

Benn, could it be from your monitor?... Does everyone feel the same about it?

Incandenza, love the ‘Stronghold’ word to describe the Dwarves gateways. I think that you (maybe unintentionally) came up with a solution to solve one of Andrew’s major concerns which was the possible misunderstanding between the 2 Dwarves regions types. Therefore I’m changing:

-Dwarves Gateway Entry to Dwarves Gateway
-Dwarves Gateway to Dwarves Stronghold

I’m posting below (and in the first post of this thread also) a quick guide to better understand this map, making clear some base rules.

[Kabanellas]

The Dawn Of Ages quick guide – things you need to know about key elements

Every Settlement has its respective army Training Ground (TG) for bonus combination:
Elven town - Elven TG
Human village - Warriors TG or Horsemen TG
Orks camp - Orcs TG
Raiders inn - Raiders TG

Dwarves have 2 region types that yield bonus when combined:
Dwarves Stronghold (DS)– one-way assaults the surrounding region (Ex: Damkianna Stronghold one-way assaults Damkianna Region)
Dwarves Gateway (DG)– from where you get access to the Dwarves underground passways
Combine DS and DG for bonus [1 DG + X DS = X bonus (detailed in the legend box)]

Tower of Control - Can bombard all Receptacles; is bombarded by The House of Gods

Raider’s Haven - Can one-way assault all Ports; is bombarded by Sea Dragon

The House of Gods - Can bombard both Towers and the Sea Dragon

Sea Dragon - Can bombard Raider's Haven; is bombarded by The House of Gods; is one-way assaulted by all Ports

Large map

Click image to enlarge.

Small map

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

large version has "Forest of Logoth" while small version has "Logoth Forest". Is this due to space concerns? I fear it could cause some confusion when, for example in team games, if one team member uses large and the other uses small map... If space is a concern, why not make them both "Logoth Forest".

Also, in the small version, the bridge between N.L and S.L looks pixelated...

[Kabanellas]

indeed!! corrected in the PG1

[natty dread]

Nice. The font looks better too.

[AndrewB]

Version 2 of the XML is created:

http://www.bolonniy.com/CC/Dawn_Of_Ages_v2.xml

[natty dread]

Version 2 of the XML is created:

screenshots please!

[AndrewB]

Version 3 of the XML is created:

http://www.bolonniy.com/CC/Dawn_Of_Ages_v3.xml

[Kabanellas]

Great work Andrew!

Screenshots posted on page 1

[natty dread]

(almost) all coordinates seem to be 1 pixel too high. Raiders' haven, telal are all wrong..

Still, I have a concern... The map says, Dwarven strongholds one-way attack surroundings, but nowhere on the map is it said which territories attack Dwarven strongholds. Yes, one can guess that the Dwarven gateways give access, but one should not have to resort to guessing. A small footnote of it would be appropriate. Or...

Just put in the legend:

Dwarven Stronghold
- assaults surrounding region, can only be assaulted
by other Strongholds and Dwarven Gateways

This would be much more clear than the current text.

[AndrewB]

(almost) all coordinates seem to be 1 pixel too high. Raiders' haven, telal are all wrong..

Lets pull out the magnifying glass, shall we?

Click image to enlarge.

Above the text 888 there are 5 pixels, belonging to the army circle
And below of the text 888 there are 5 pixels, belonging to the army circle.

So, how can that be 1 pixel too high?

[natty dread]

Lets pull out the magnifying glass, shall we?

That's not the version I was looking at.


FTR, I used this xml http://www.bolonniy.com/CC/Dawn_Of_Ages_v3.xml

and this map image http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af10 ... a2_img.png

which I thought were the latest ones?

ps. I posted that before I noticed screenshots were posted.

[AndrewB]

First post has all the latest links and the screen shots. So, I assume, it is all good with the latest versions?

[natty dread]

Yes the latest one seems fine wrt. coordinates.

But I still think the dwarf territories could be explained better.

[AndrewB]

I will let Kab to answer it.

I had problems with the Dwarfs' territories and bonus myself. But was persuaded that is it ok the way it is now.

[Kabanellas]

Its pretty much this:

-Gateways and Strongholds are connected by underground passways.
-You get access to the passways by those Gateways.
-From the Strongholds you can one-way assault the region their built in (ex: Damkianna Stronghold one-way assaults Damkianna Region)
-1 Gateway combined with X Strongholds will yield X number of troops

[natty dread]

ergh....

I know how it is. What I'm saying is it needs to be explained better in the map. You can't expect every player to come to the thread to read the rules, all rules should be crystal clear by looking at the map.

Now, I have some ideas for how to accomplish this...

The part where you have the symbol of the Dwarf gateway, and next to it text "Dwarves' Gateway". With some slight moving of the other texts and symbols, you could fit in the text "Dwarves' Gateway - attacks strongholds via passages"

Another option would be to just make a new text, something like this:

Dwarven Strongholds / Gateways
- all connected by underground passages
- Gateways can be assaulted by adjacent regions
- Strongholds can assault adjacent regions

(by the way, I strongly urge you to use "adjacent" in place of "surrounding" here. Surrounding is more vague, Adjacent makes it clear that it means territories directly next to them)

Something like this. But in the current state, you will be sure to receive a flood of complaints from people who fail to understand how the gateway/stronghold territories work, because it is not clearly explained in the legend.

You don't want to make another farming map, now do you?

[AndrewB]

Dwarven Strongholds / Gateways
- all connected by underground passages
- Gateways can be assaulted by adjacent regions
- Strongholds can assault adjacent regions

You got in the same trap I did, it seems.

The proper statement is this:

- Gateways can assault and be assaulted by adjacent region (It is singular here, not plural. There is only 1 region a gateway is adjacent to)
- Strongholds can assault adjacent region (same singular here)

[natty dread]

Well that just proves my point, the way they are currently explained is too confusing. Make a new "box" in the legend explaining both in the way I described, and it will be much more clear.

So, the legend should say:

Dwarves' Gateways & Strongholds
- all are connected by underground passages
- Gateways can assault & be assaulted by adjacent territories
- Strongholds can assault adjacent territories

The plural is there because there are multiple Gateways, btw... thus multiple territories that connect to Gateways.

[Kabanellas]

Actually this is all in the legend board

-Gateways and Strongholds are connected by underground passways.

in the second legend box there's a brief explanation with the red dotted line that symbolizes that connection in the map. Pretty visible in the map in my opinion.

-You get access to the passways by those Gateways.

no doubts here I think, being the 'gateway' as stated by the name itself and the 2 little pointing arrows the entrance for the passways.

-From the Strongholds you can one-way assault the region they're built in (ex: Damkianna Stronghold one-way assaults Damkianna Region)

said in different words in the second legend box: Can one way assault the surrounding region.
I could change it for: Can one way assault the region they're built in. - maybe this could be more comprehensible?.....
EDIT: when playing this will be quite clear, because you will actually read Damkianna Stronghold so the region they're built in will have to be Damkianna

[natty dread]

I just think it would be much more clear if the passages, gateways and strongholds were all explained in one place. Right now, you got to find gateway in one place, connect it with the passages (if you manage to find it under the stronghold explanation), find the strongholds in another place... and then calculate 1+1...

I could change it for: Can one way assault the region they're built in.

that'd just be more confusing...

Gateways and Strongholds are connected by underground passways.

This is in the legend, but it is under strongholds only. It makes it a bit unclear if it means both the gateways & strongholds, or strongholds only.

-You get access to the passways by those Gateways.

This in itself is confusing. You get access to the underground passes... but the passes are not territories, so it would be much easier if it was just plainly spelled out: "Gateways & Strongholds are connected by u.g. passages".

-From the Strongholds you can one-way assault the region they're built in (ex: Damkianna Stronghold one-way assaults Damkianna Region)

This I think is quite clear, but again it implies that the same is not possible from the Gateways... never underestimate the casual player's ability to misunderstand

[Kabanellas]

Ok,
I’m proposing the following changes, though, (and I must reiterate this) I’m pretty sure that after a first experimental game any doubts ill dissipate concerning this matter.

-------------
-Where it says:
‘can one way assault the adjacent region’
it will say
‘can one way assault the region they’re built in’
thinking about it, makes perfect sense. It will help to make the connection as I’ve exemplified in the last post
(Damkianna Stronghold in this example the region they're built in will have to be Damkianna)
-------------
In the first legend box I’ll add, below 'Dwarves’ Gateway':

'Connected to Strongholds by underground passways'
-doted red line below-

[natty dread]

‘can one way assault the region they’re built in’

How about "can one way assault the region they occupy"