Eurasia [Map Pack]

[mrswdk]

It's a very good map, but I would like to request that the name of the territory titled 'Taiwan R.O.C.' be changed to 'Taiwan'.

None of the other territories have been given political names (e.g. 'North Korea' is not called 'DPRK'), so I feel it is a little unnecessary to use a political name for possibly the most contentious territory on the board.

'Taiwan' is a perfectly acceptable and politically neutral name for the territory. Maybe it wasn't the map-maker's intention to be provocative, but they have been and I would recommend that this is remedied out of consideration for those who may be offended by the use of the 'R.O.C.'.

[thenobodies80]

It's a very good map, but I would like to request that the name of the territory titled 'Taiwan R.O.C.' be changed to 'Taiwan'.

None of the other territories have been given political names (e.g. 'North Korea' is not called 'DPRK'), so I feel it is a little unnecessary to use a political name for possibly the most contentious territory on the board.

'Taiwan' is a perfectly acceptable and politically neutral name for the territory. Maybe it wasn't the map-maker's intention to be provocative, but they have been and I would recommend that this is remedied out of consideration for those who may be offended by the use of the 'R.O.C.'.

Hello,
the biggest problem with your request is that the mapmaker is no longer active on the site.
But luckily I can contact him anyway...said that I can not garantuee he is willing to change the map.

Nobodies

[saxitoxin]

Hello,
the biggest problem with your request is that the mapmaker is no longer active on the site.
But luckily I can contact him anyway...said that I can not garantuee he is willing to change the map.

please tell him that gillpig has left OT and ask him to come back

[mrswdk]

It's a very good map, but I would like to request that the name of the territory titled 'Taiwan R.O.C.' be changed to 'Taiwan'.

None of the other territories have been given political names (e.g. 'North Korea' is not called 'DPRK'), so I feel it is a little unnecessary to use a political name for possibly the most contentious territory on the board.

'Taiwan' is a perfectly acceptable and politically neutral name for the territory. Maybe it wasn't the map-maker's intention to be provocative, but they have been and I would recommend that this is remedied out of consideration for those who may be offended by the use of the 'R.O.C.'.

Hello,
the biggest problem with your request is that the mapmaker is no longer active on the site.
But luckily I can contact him anyway...said that I can not garantuee he is willing to change the map.

Nobodies

Sure, thanks.

[mrswdk]

What news?

[mrswdk]

natty says it's fine

[thenobodies80]

Yes, I have permission from natty to change his map if necessary.

The point (and also his question) is: "it is really necessary?"
I mean, if someone can be offended by the use of R.O.C., it could be also that someone could be offended by the fact we will use just Taiwan?
Afaik, ROC it's the official name. (note: I don't want to offend or be provocative )

[mrswdk]

Nah, 'Taiwan' is a neutral term that doesn't carry any political significance. It's just the name of the island.

ROC is the full name used by those who consider Taiwan to be an independent country, and usually the only time someone would say 'Taiwan ROC' is when they are trying to make a deliberate political statement.

(and seeing as you raise the question of whether or not Taiwan ROC is the official name: fyi, as far as the UN and almost every government in the world are concerned, Taiwan is part of the People's Republic of China and therefore the ROC does not exist. People are, of course, entitled to their own opinions though ).

[thenobodies80]

If rename it just Taiwan would not cause other possible complains, i will change the map and I'll propose the result to natty before posting it here. It's his map afterall

[mrswdk]

[mrswdk]

Bump

[thenobodies80]

I did the changes and natty is fine with them.
I leave here the images for a couple of days then we will replace them.

[bigimg]http://wcforums.org/foundry/Eurasia2.L.jpg[/bigimg]

[random21]

My regards to Natty, I did look him up, but arrived after is leave.

Playing his map has made me General. : P



Indeed a fine piece of map-making.

Tell him I'll take a dozen more.

... His map has received 60% of my games total played.

[HgMe2]

I don't know if this was on purpose or not, but I noticed there's at least one territory for every letter of the alphabet on this map.

A - Austria
B - Benelux
C - Cyprus
D - Delhi
E - England
F - France
G - Germany
H - Hainan
I - Ireland
J - Jiangxi
K - Kyrgyzstan
L - Laos
M - Mumbai
N - Norway
O - Oman
P - Portugal
Q - Qinghai
R - Riyadh
S - Scotland
T - Taiwan
U - Ukraine
V - Volgograd
W - Wrangel Island
X - Xinjiang
Y - Yemen
Z - Zavkhan

So yeah. Big map.

[mrswdk]

Currently playing another game on Eurasia and it just occurred to me that Taiwan could do with being transferred from the 'Far East' bonus to the 'East China' bonus, for several reasons:

1) Proximity. Taiwan is significantly closer to East China than the Far East, as clearly displayed on the map (pictured below)



2) Taiwan has historically been linked with China, speaks Chinese, has a Chinese culture and to this day self-identifies as being Chinese, making it a curious exclusion from the China bonus.

3) To pre-empt those who think this would be a political move, the territories that make up the modern day PRC are currently divided up into the 'West China', 'South China', 'East China', 'Mongolia' and 'Manchuria' bonuses, so moving Taiwan would not constitute a statement of any sort

4) The East China bonus could be increased to +4 to reflect the increased difficulty of holding this enlargened bonus, Taiwan could be lashed to Jiangxi and the two territories unified or the status quo could remain unaltered, save for the change in color and bonus status. None of these would have much/any impact on gameplay.

4) Other reasons can be given in response to objections

[macbone]

Yeah, it always surprises me to see Taiwan part of the East Asia bonus and not part of East China.

Many countries, including the US, consider Taiwan part of China, though Taiwan's official name is the Republic of China: http://www.taiwan.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=1 ... =3556&mp=1

Too, many maps seem to include Taiwan as a part of China by using the same color for each, but other maps do not.

Taiwan is close to Okinawa and the Ryukyu Islands, but it's closer to mainland China:

[bigimg]http://www.mapability.com/ei8ic/maps/prefix/maps/asia_east.gif[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://www.worldmapsonline.com/images/academia/murals/academia_asia_physical_mural_lg.jpg[/bigimg]

(Of course, the Senkaku Islands are in between Taiwan and Japan and are claimed by China [who calls them the Diaoyu Islands], Taiwan [who calls them the Tiaoyutai Islands], and Japan.)

[bigimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Senkaku_Diaoyu_Tiaoyu_Islands.png/220px-Senkaku_Diaoyu_Tiaoyu_Islands.png[/bigimg]

Nearly all the maps on Google Images labels the island as Taiwan. I found one that referred to it as R.O.C. (Taiwan).

However, by including Taiwan as a part of the East China bonus, though, I'd view that as a political statement.

From the National Geographic Asia map:

The People's Republic of China claims Taiwan as its 23rd province. Taiwan's government (Republic of China) maintains that there are two political entities. The islands of Matsu, Pescadores, Pratas, and Quemoy are administered by Taiwan.

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps ... a-map.html

Man, the archive on the Talk: Taiwan Wikipedia page is 23 pages. =)

[mrswdk]

So we are all in agreement \(^0^)/

In the apparent absence of anyone else looking at this thread, who do we need to raise this with?

[riskllama]

maybe try the mapmaker? if he's still around, that is.

[AndyDufresne]

This seems like the kind of thing that can be left up to the mapmaker discretion.


--Andy

[mrswdk]

The map maker's natty right?

[Gilligan]

he hasn't logged in in over 30 days

[isaiah40]

he hasn't logged in in over 30 days

He hasn't logged in over a year!

[Gilligan]

he hasn't logged in in over 30 days

He hasn't logged in over a year!

He was here Sept 14, at least that's the last time he posted. Not being able to post on someone's wall says at least 30 days

[mrswdk]

I messaged him but it hasn't even been opened.

[iancanton]

since there is nothing wrong with the gameplay on this map, there is no reason to change it.

although there is an argument for rearranging and renaming regions and borders to correct mistakes, we must keep the gameplay the same where possible. this means the far east and east china bonuses must contain the same number of regions as at present and all regions must connect in the same way. the likelihood of the mapmaker doing this is currently very low.

ian.