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People who say that just have their time scales all confused. Eden was much longer ago than that, which we know because Romans were actually a metaphor for dinosaurs.Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
Biblical rabbit hole? Why are we talking about the Bible, or even the 'established' timeline of the Bible? There are over 200 religions and cultures over the world that recorded and passed on orally and in written form a very similar story about the great flood. Shall we conclude all their stories have the same timeline?Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
Perhaps bringing up the timeline of the Bible was meant to confuse?mrswdk wrote:People who say that just have their time scales all confused. Eden was much longer ago than that, which we know because Romans were actually a metaphor for dinosaurs.Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
I can understand why Mets brings up the Bible, but really I wasn't asking anything about the Bible or Noah or the Arc. I can understand how pre-historic and even modern human beings insert 'God' into things they didn't understand at the time. However, I cannot understand how what pre-historic humans blamed as the cause for the great flood means that there was no great flood.notyou2 wrote:Scotty's right. The floods happened very suddenly when God turned on the hair dryers and melted all the ice in a day.
If you want to debate a hypothesis, you need to be specific about its nature. Since presumably most or all of the existing cultural stories about a great flood will differ in the details about how it happened, it is not enough to specify whether a "great flood" occurred, but when, how, and for how long it lasted. We cannot make any progress on the issue until that has been indicated. So if you are not talking about the flood of Genesis, then which one are you talking about? Or do you want us to try and simultaneously discuss all 200 stories at the same time? I have started off with one particular narrative that I thought would be relevant to you, but if you prefer a different narrative, please be specific.Phatscotty wrote:Biblical rabbit hole? Why are we talking about the Bible, or even the 'established' timeline of the Bible? There are over 200 religions and cultures over the world that recorded and passed on orally and in written form a very similar story about the great flood. Shall we conclude all their stories have the same timeline?Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
I can't speak for everyone, but perhaps it has to do with the fact that there's no strong contemporary geological evidence to suggest that a global flood occurred.Timelines and the one version out of 200+ that you choose to start with aside, I'm not sure any of this relates to how so many have come to the conclusion that there was no great flood.
Obviously I have very little knowledge about Biblical scholarship, but I was referring to the well-known Ussher timeline. As far as I am aware other timelines that are still young Earth creationist in nature don't put the age at greater than 10,000 years, i.e. after the end of the last glacial maximum.I would be curious to see your source for the official established timeline for a story in the Book of Genesis, if you would be so kind.
Established by whom? Old Testament timelines are terribly vague. The seven day earth creation could be 7 earth days or more likely as alluded to, a lot of earth years.Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
Besides the fact there has been (ignored) evidence all along but the scientific community exiled and banned scientists for life because their findings had yet to be 'understood' and synthesized with other scientific fields with other discoveries of evidence that had not been presented, tested, backed up and certified....discoveries made all the way up until now. Yup, that kind of stuff we only 'know' about reserved for theorizing the sun revolves around the earth still goes on today in established science. There in fact is strong contemporary geological evidence to show for a fact that a global great flood occurred, and it's not only geological either. I am glad to go all the way down the rabbit hole as to when, how, how long, and much more in specific details. Progress is trying to be made as we speak, right here in real time, but there can be no progress and I'm not going to be getting detailed until we can start talking about the great flood and it's clear we aren't talking about the Bible, and we aren't talking about young earth creationists.Metsfanmax wrote:If you want to debate a hypothesis, you need to be specific about its nature. Since presumably most or all of the existing cultural stories about a great flood will differ in the details about how it happened, it is not enough to specify whether a "great flood" occurred, but when, how, and for how long it lasted. We cannot make any progress on the issue until that has been indicated. So if you are not talking about the flood of Genesis, then which one are you talking about? Or do you want us to try and simultaneously discuss all 200 stories at the same time? I have started off with one particular narrative that I thought would be relevant to you, but if you prefer a different narrative, please be specific.Phatscotty wrote:Biblical rabbit hole? Why are we talking about the Bible, or even the 'established' timeline of the Bible? There are over 200 religions and cultures over the world that recorded and passed on orally and in written form a very similar story about the great flood. Shall we conclude all their stories have the same timeline?Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
I can't speak for everyone, but perhaps it has to do with the fact that there's no strong contemporary geological evidence to suggest that a global flood occurred.Timelines and the one version out of 200+ that you choose to start with aside, I'm not sure any of this relates to how so many have come to the conclusion that there was no great flood.
Obviously I have very little knowledge about Biblical scholarship, but I was referring to the well-known Ussher timeline. As far as I am aware other timelines that are still young Earth creationist in nature don't put the age at greater than 10,000 years, i.e. after the end of the last glacial maximum.I would be curious to see your source for the official established timeline for a story in the Book of Genesis, if you would be so kind.
Well I don't think that learning more about human history will teach us more about dinosaurs or relativity, but sure -- I agree with you that there's a lot of value in continuing to study the history of humanity. And indeed, I support the people who actually spend their lives dedicated to actively learning about this. What I don't have much patience for is people who engage in idle speculation on internet forums with people who are mostly just as ignorant about the subject as they are, when they could be out scouring the available evidence -- or finding new evidence of their own. There's so much to learn out there, man, and you're not going to learn much of it on the Conquer Club forums.Phatscotty wrote:We'll probably never get all of history from all humanity, but think about how much history we could gain and what it would do to our understanding of history if we got up to 10%. How about 5% to 6%? a 1% increase in discovering and understanding human history will likely change 'everything we know'.
The 7 days could also be 'great days', which represents (around/about) 60,000 years, referring to solar revolutions.2dimes wrote:Established by whom? Old Testament timelines are terribly vague. The seven day earth creation could be 7 earth days or more likely as alluded to, a lot of earth years.Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
Luckily, I do have the patience to wait for someone who wants to and can talk about the all the water resulting from the melting of the last ice age. Just curious, and this has nothing to do with religion or religious texts. What do you think happened to all the water resulting from the melting of the ice sheets marking the end of the last ice age? Hint, the North American ice sheet spanned from the North Pole to Kentucky and over Canada the ice sheet was stacked up to 2 miles thick.Metsfanmax wrote:Well I don't think that learning more about human history will teach us more about dinosaurs or relativity, but sure -- I agree with you that there's a lot of value in continuing to study the history of humanity. And indeed, I support the people who actually spend their lives dedicated to actively learning about this. What I don't have much patience for is people who engage in idle speculation on internet forums with people who are mostly just as ignorant about the subject as they are, when they could be out scouring the available evidence -- or finding new evidence of their own. There's so much to learn out there, man, and you're not going to learn much of it on the Conquer Club forums.Phatscotty wrote:We'll probably never get all of history from all humanity, but think about how much history we could gain and what it would do to our understanding of history if we got up to 10%. How about 5% to 6%? a 1% increase in discovering and understanding human history will likely change 'everything we know'.
Over 200 cultures all started similar manners of civilization including agriculture. Agriculture works best in flood plains, but if the floods come early or late, your livelihood can be ruined. It's not surprising that floods became the chief "big bad".Phatscotty wrote:Biblical rabbit hole? Why are we talking about the Bible, or even the 'established' timeline of the Bible? There are over 200 religions and cultures over the world that recorded and passed on orally and in written form a very similar story about the great flood. Shall we conclude all their stories have the same timeline?Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
Timelines and the one version out of 200+ that you choose to start with aside, I'm not sure any of this relates to how so many have come to the conclusion that there was no great flood. I would be curious to see your source for the official established timeline for a story in the Book of Genesis, if you would be so kind.
This?Phatscotty wrote:The 7 days could also be 'great days', which represents (around/about) 60,000 years, referring to solar revolutions.2dimes wrote:Established by whom? Old Testament timelines are terribly vague. The seven day earth creation could be 7 earth days or more likely as alluded to, a lot of earth years.Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
It also could simply be the 7 days 'the watcher' took to first notice Venus would always appear in the morning sky just before the sun was about to rise, discovering the first thought and preceding the first step of evolution in Stanley Kubrik's 2001 A Space Odyssey
Well, at least I can still say you always give a most interesting spin to things! To answer, probably for similar reasons as to why the great flood is so quick to be denied. It was taken out of textbooks and therefore 'cuz separation of church and state!' is all one needs to know that when they hear about the great flood they are supposed to laugh at it.DoomYoshi wrote:Over 200 cultures all started similar manners of civilization including agriculture. Agriculture works best in flood plains, but if the floods come early or late, your livelihood can be ruined. It's not surprising that floods became the chief "big bad".Phatscotty wrote:Biblical rabbit hole? Why are we talking about the Bible, or even the 'established' timeline of the Bible? There are over 200 religions and cultures over the world that recorded and passed on orally and in written form a very similar story about the great flood. Shall we conclude all their stories have the same timeline?Metsfanmax wrote:Well, how far down the Biblical rabbit hole do you want to go? For starters, the glaciers all melted more than 10,000 years ago, which would I believe be in conflict with the established Biblical timeline for when the flood was supposed to occur, about 4,000 years ago.
Timelines and the one version out of 200+ that you choose to start with aside, I'm not sure any of this relates to how so many have come to the conclusion that there was no great flood. I would be curious to see your source for the official established timeline for a story in the Book of Genesis, if you would be so kind.
In 1816 a volcano erupted that caused the sky to darken worldwide and it snowed in New York in July. This is a real even and yet it's not part of our American mythology at all. Why is Johnny Appleseed more well known than the year without a summer? Why are there hundreds of accounts of Santa Claus but few accounts of the reproductive pathways of chaetognaths? Why does every culture have an account of dragons but only one (modern) culture has an account of DNA?
The volume of ice in the Laurentide ice sheet is estimated to be in the ballpark of 25 million cubic kilometers (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 5/abstract), or about 6 million cubic miles. If the average ice thickness were 2 miles (I think that's as little high, but no worries), that would be a surface area of 3 million square miles, which is about 3/4 of the size of Canada.Phatscotty wrote: Luckily, I do have the patience to wait for someone who wants to and can talk about the all the water resulting from the melting of the last ice age. Just curious, and this has nothing to do with religion or religious texts. What do you think happened to all the water resulting from the melting of the ice sheets marking the end of the last ice age? Hint, the North American ice sheet spanned from the North Pole to Kentucky and over Canada the ice sheet was stacked up to 2 miles thick.
phats wrote:Nobody knew what a dinosaur was until 1938, so everybody 'knew' there was no such thing as dinosaurs in 1937.
Come on, I was ready to let that one go =/TA1LGUNN3R wrote:phats wrote:Nobody knew what a dinosaur was until 1938, so everybody 'knew' there was no such thing as dinosaurs in 1937.
wut
Nah, it's cool. Making it about a side point of a side point is better than a spell-check rebuttal anyways.Metsfanmax wrote:Come on, I was ready to let that one go =/TA1LGUNN3R wrote:phats wrote:Nobody knew what a dinosaur was until 1938, so everybody 'knew' there was no such thing as dinosaurs in 1937.
wut
In the 1900's, finally the scientific community began to give their attention to dinosaurs, and there was 'a lot of enthusiasm!' So, very few people might have known what a dinosaur was. The people who dug up fossils and first confirmed the theories and put the first skeletons together and introduced it through journalism and people reading those journals, but when did 'everyone' know what a dinosaur was, or when did dinosaurs become 'well known'?For 15 years -- from 1868 to 1883 -- Hadrosaurus foulkii was the only mounted dinosaur skeleton on display anywhere in the world. In 1879, it became the first dinosaur skeleton to be displayed in Europe when the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh acquired a copy.
