WoT:Mem of Light An Ending

[DoomYoshi]

I think the faction game is a bit more muddy than anyone yet suspects. Why should I be forced to reveal my alignment when many other players have made the same observation?

[DoomYoshi]

I should also note that not a single person yet has disagreed with the contents of the list, only the premise.

[Iron Butterfly]

Vote Dakky

So we have a self proclaimed Dark alighned Bull Trolloc. Gee I wonder who would fight against the forces of light?

[StorrZerg]

last game i was a traitor. Granted it wasn't worded like that. I was told i could win with light, and to avoid the dark one. I didn't know that meant the mafia. yet i won as town cause i died before being converted. i think. idk shits weird

[new guy1]

Wow, Monday morning and already there's a lynch train gaining steam. I would like clarification about a few things if possible:
- If dakky is Dark and we presume them to be scum (someone with knowledge of the series made that connection, I forget who), wouldn't he then know the rest of his scumgang? And wouldn't they have told him N0 to not claim Dark? (Unless they couldn't chat N0?)
- If dakky is Dark, then someone is light. Was it aage who stated that he was? Are those the goodies in the series? Or do we have several factions?
- I read here that Mat's father has fought the trollocs. I.e. trollocs (that would be dakky) are against Mat's father (so I presume also Mat). Are we accepting that Mat is necessarily a good guy?

Of course, this seems to hinge a lot on dakky not being full of bull...

Seemed very fluffy. Most of this has been covered, so you just kind of summarized and put into question form a bunch of stuff that had been mentioned or asked already.

I'm going to FOS Tim on those last few of posts for his alignment probing over that list. Those are his reads, of course I don't like that he didn't have some reasoning with his list, but initial reads rarely have a lot of support with them. While on the subject of the list, this may not be a typical game:

Of course, this seems to hinge a lot on dakky not being full of bull...

This is what it boils down to, really. In the series, the book A Memory of Light is all about the final battle between the forces of the Light and the forces of the Dark. Most of the split factions in the series band together for one side or the other. Trollocs are the foot soldier for the Dark. In Rish' first game, "Dark" was the mafia. If dakky wants to argue that his role didn't say mafia, only dark, then I would say that dark equates to informed minority. With the exception of wolf trollocs, trollocs are not intelligent - but this is a mafia game, so I would very much doubt if dakky had to play out his role's flavour intelligence.

This made me thing of something. Considering how the whole saga was written to move the story towards this final battle, with pretty much everyone in the dark about who is alligned with what or who. It could be possible that we are looking not at a minority scum vs majority town setting but one of two or more more or less even groupings. In the story the forsaken, who are on the dark one's side, don't co-operate, they tend rather to compete with each other. The ones on the light side as well don't always pull in the same direction.

This is the feeling I got with all the people seemingly wanting to question if the Dark are the majority (and therefore good guys). If this is the case, we can count on multiple NK's to give it away (well, if each group has a NK). I don't feel that the Dark faction is good, majority or not, and we can confirm the multiple Dark factions through the above method or lynching Dark until we find something other than a trolloc, or something that would be associated with it (help, people who know what would be associated with trollocs). More can be discussed on this speculation later, when there's evidence to support or debunk it.

FP- I don't think DY needs to claim. Made a list of observations, I would look more at the people taking it hard/framing it as a scummy thing to do with which he has to claim his alignment. Seems obvious he would claim Light if he did claim alignment, considering the first person who claimed Dark is on the gallows, and then it still wouldn't solve anything, we would need more information to get a full claim to prove alignment. I don't see the case on him I guess.

[StorrZerg]

why quote rage, but not fos him or really give much more on him. yet call out tim, with out pointing to what you found to be an issue.

strange way to go about looking for scum imo. overall it isn't bad, just awkward with lack of focus. ill lean town on you new guy. or maybe for this game not a threat

[new guy1]

why quote rage, but not fos him or really give much more on him. yet call out tim, with out pointing to what you found to be an issue.

strange way to go about looking for scum imo. overall it isn't bad, just awkward with lack of focus. ill lean town on you new guy. or maybe for this game not a threat

Because to me, one fluff post doesn't warrant an FOS on it's own, though I see your thought process. Didn't quote tim's because it was a series of three posts that I just didn't feel like quoting, though I suppose I could have (figured the reasoning would point towards the posts on their own). Lack of focus so to speak could be because I was covering almost a day of events, didn't want to miss stuff, but didn't want to post a wall of arguments that equate to making mountains out of anthills and day one-ish arguments.

[gregwolf121]

first off i know that this has basically been cleared up but, storr, mandy was right it was a joke vote, though probably should unvote

second by my count dakky is at L2 so i think it time for his rock-solid defense, though with him being a trolloc i'm half expecting him to just throw rocks at us. i would say lets refrain from lynching dakky till we want the day to be done, we still have time for discussion

and then there is this

Thoughts so far on other players:
aage:light
BuJaber: dark
dakky: dark
gregwolf: dark
Hotshot: dark
Iron Butterfly: light
madmitch: dark
mandy: dark
Marashu: light
mets: dark
new guy: dark
Ragian: dark
sam levi: light
StorrZerg: dark
strike wolf: dark
TimWoodbury: dark
tokle: dark
william: dark
wing: light

It seems like a lot of players are stuck in a trap of the "Emperor's New Clothes".
---------------------------------

I'll let you guys know who is getting lynched day 2. Right before dakky goes down

Did you already announce this?

my question is what is your reasoning for dividing the players like this? mostly meaning why do you think the individual players are that alignment.

[dakky21]

So we have a self proclaimed Dark alighned Bull Trolloc. Gee I wonder who would fight against the forces of light?

Bringing me to L-2, I believe it is a right time to reveal the truth. I was sick of D1 joke votes so I tried a different approach... claimed something believable but not counter-claimable. The lore says there were inexhaustible supply of Trollocs... Wanted to see how will people react and who will vote me. I'm not a bomb and BuJaber is right - I was aiming that, to see who is ready to die D1 despite I could be a nuke.

Since many of you believe that the Light is the town, I will now claim for real - I am Mat's Foxhead medallion. I protect Mat from anything that is not aimed directly at him, so any bus actions won't work, including healing.

Being a Light sided medallion, I still don't know if I'm town, but you must say the plan was brilliant. Never more information on D1

[aage]

If this game contained the same amount of light and dark roles there'd be no point in playing, might as well roll a dice and let one side win. Mafia has always been a game of informed minority vs uninformed majority, there is no reason to treat this game differently on day 1. All speculation about multiple night kills, recruiters and whatever else is irrelevant for day one, just as it doesn't matter who is part of what team since nobody will claim dark anyway (especially after the quick votes on Dakky; he is being lynched because he claimed a role with traditional scum flavour). We won't get any information about the setup until we go into nightphase, so stop playing the setup and play the game. You're getting caught up in day 2 discussion material. It is in my opinion pointless to discuss these matters before having any solid evidence in the form of role flips, which is why lynching Dakky is perfectly fine.

My guess is that Rish, to avoid last game's ending, has fucked with the flavour of the game to throw off flavour reads, so forget everything you know about dark and light and all that. It's irrelevant until we see night kills. Dakky claimed no abilities so whatever he is, it won't hurt whatever town is if he dies. Without the information we will get at night, nobody is gonna step forward and claim their alignment out of the blue and a day 1 mass claim is stupid as hell. This day is rapidly turning into a mexican standoff so let's just hang someone and move on.


Storr, Buj and Newguy seem to be the only ones realising this too. I agree with Newguy that Tim's fishing for alignment is scummy btw, but also note DY fishes for responses on his list while refusing to make claims - let's turn the tables, I think Doom is dark aligned, comment on that Doom pretty please.
Wing is making the right argument but doesn't realise that this day is pointless yet, probably he's too busy being paranoid about me.

FP by greg
We want the day to be done, we can get no relevant info from people who don't know if they're town or scum.

FP by dakky
The item you're currently claiming to be (wtf? you're claiming an item? really?) doesn't appear in Mem of Light. What are you trying to pull?

[Metsfanmax]

So we have a self proclaimed Dark alighned Bull Trolloc. Gee I wonder who would fight against the forces of light?

Bringing me to L-2, I believe it is a right time to reveal the truth. I was sick of D1 joke votes so I tried a different approach... claimed something believable but not counter-claimable. The lore says there were inexhaustible supply of Trollocs... Wanted to see how will people react and who will vote me. I'm not a bomb and BuJaber is right - I was aiming that, to see who is ready to die D1 despite I could be a nuke.

Since many of you believe that the Light is the town, I will now claim for real - I am Mat's Foxhead medallion. I protect Mat from anything that is not aimed directly at him, so any bus actions won't work, including healing.

Being a Light sided medallion, I still don't know if I'm town, but you must say the plan was brilliant. Never more information on D1

Yeah, not changing my vote. Lynch all liars.

[aage]

FP by dakky
The item you're currently claiming to be (wtf? you're claiming an item? really?) doesn't appear in Mem of Light. What are you trying to pull?

Derp, Mem of Light is the 14th book and not the 2nd book which I originally assumed. Regardless, an item as role is bullshit.

[strike wolf]

Dakkys second claim is lamer than his first. Though Aage is wrong about one thing. The medallion does get mentioned Memory of Light. It was the reason Mat was chosen as General of the Light because he was the only one who could resist the compulsion because he had the amulet. That is minimally important though. Dakky is lying about at least one claim and neither role feels right. Amulet feels like a likely fake claim choice because an object is unlikely to be counter claimed. The role itself. Possibly provable but would be difficult and would require trusting two people to be telling the truth

vote Dakky

I should call Bulls hit on Aage again. You've been around long enough to know about faction games.

Fped by aage.

[dakky21]

Come on people, just one more!!!

[aage]

I should call Bulls hit on Aage again. You've been around long enough to know about faction games.

Each faction game I've played here has been the same bullshit and a waste of time. Those had 3 or more factions in it though. If this game is dark vs light, it's a matter of who loses someone first.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Doom. If Dark players are the majority town, why are you vohing Dakky?

Sure you dont have to reveal your alignment, but you do have to explain why your actions dont match your words.

Aage I am aware this day is pointless, Mets has gone quiet so I have nothing more to interegate. This is why I concentrate on the more important issue of getting you lynched for personal enjoyment.

Oh wait no, Mets why are you silent? Scared you will make further slip ups?

Storr, youve never been particularly witty in these.

[TimWoodbury]

Dakky idk what your trying to pull but i deff think now your trying to die.

[Ragian]

I don't believe Dakky's second claim. To me, the first claim seemed genuine (as in a role PM) while the second one feels googled. (I know I googled mat's medallion and found on wiki that he was made commander of forces given that the medallion made "him the only competent general immune to hostile 'Compulsion'". I reckon "compulsion" got paraphrased into "anything that's not aimed directly at him" in Dakky's second claim. I don't buy it.)

The only thing that annoys me is the fact that Dakky stated that he does not know his scum allies, but that could, of course, be bullshit. However, Wing and some others seem to buy that. To me it doesn't make any sense.

vote dakky

Let's get this show on the road.

---

On a more personal note, I'm on a work trip to Florence till Sunday morning. I'll try to check in at least once a day while taking turns, but I'm going to be swamped (and drunk). Hopefully, the night phase will last some three-four days

FP'ed by Tim. Let's rid him of his misery.

[aage]

Great! Let's see what the night brings.

[rishaed]

Vote Count:

Mandalorian (1) - Gregwolf
dakky21 (11) - Tokle, Storrzerg, BuJaber, TimWoodbury, IB, Samlevi, metsfanmax, aage, ragian, strikewolf, DoomYoshi
WingCmdr (1) - Mandalorian
aage (1) - WingCmdr

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Thats a LYNCH!

The army of Darkspawn approached the field. Lightning and Thunder, bolts of Fire already streaked out, to be met with water and air. Gateways revovled into being and armies marched through. At the front of the Charge stood a massive hulking creature. A twisted mix between a Bull and a Man. It roared out its challenge to its opponents when suddenly it was not fighting men, but Ogier. A long handled axe fell. As the Trollocs lifeblood ebbed out of him and his eyes started to close... he could see a mist lurking in the distance. Blurry visioned he fell to the ground and blacked out as he died. All the while hearing the song of blood... The song of death.

Dakky21 Bull Trolloc has been lynched.
N1 Begin. You have 48 hrs to send in night actions.

[Iron Butterfly]

So we have a self proclaimed Dark alighned Bull Trolloc. Gee I wonder who would fight against the forces of light?

Bringing me to L-2, I believe it is a right time to reveal the truth. I was sick of D1 joke votes so I tried a different approach... claimed something believable but not counter-claimable. The lore says there were inexhaustible supply of Trollocs... Wanted to see how will people react and who will vote me. I'm not a bomb and BuJaber is right - I was aiming that, to see who is ready to die D1 despite I could be a nuke.

Since many of you believe that the Light is the town, I will now claim for real - I am Mat's Foxhead medallion. I protect Mat from anything that is not aimed directly at him, so any bus actions won't work, including healing.

Being a Light sided medallion, I still don't know if I'm town, but you must say the plan was brilliant. Never more information on D1

I just saw Mets beat me to the punch. There is a specific reason why Lynch all liars is a staple of mafia play.

[mandalorian2298]

Thoughts so far on other players:
aage:light
BuJaber: dark
dakky: dark
gregwolf: dark
Hotshot: dark
Iron Butterfly: light
madmitch: dark
mandy: dark
Marashu: light
mets: dark
new guy: dark
Ragian: dark
sam levi: light
StorrZerg: dark
strike wolf: dark
TimWoodbury: dark
tokle: dark
william: dark
wing: light

/quote]

so your saying theres more dark then light? also may i ask how you came about this current list and wich side so to say do you put yourself on?

I can't believe I almost missed this (thanks Tim): FOS DoomYoshi for trying to implant the perception that the majority AKA Town is Dark. Kind of Dark thing to do.

Revealing alignment day 1 isn't a smart move.

No. No it isn't.

[rishaed]

Slowly the mist settled over the plains of Merrilor. Suddenly part of it went numb. Shaisam was curious. Who was it that foiled his first attempt? Who dragged his target out of harms way away from the mist? First though, first he must find out why the mist was acting strangly under this dark sky. It was time to meet old friends... yes time to have a merry little reunion. Shaisam tripped over a rock in his way. Cursing his prized seed, the ruby dagger fell out of his hands.
"Fancy meeting you here Fain. I heard something interesting since the last time we met. Once you've survived a disease you become immune to it."
Smiling Mat rammed the ruby dagger back into Shaisam's heart.
No. NO! This is not how it was supposed to go. This body was too fragile, too weak. As Shaisam started to melt into the ground he heard.
"And you can keep your filthy present this time!"
The Dance of battle had just begun however. This time the Ram fell. There was nobody watching. They were all fighting for either life or from desire and being forced to.
Strike Wolf Shaisam has been killed.
Iron Butterfly Ramhead Trolloc has been killed.
D2 Start.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Doom. If Dark players are the majority town, why are you vohing Dakky?

Sure you dont have to reveal your alignment, but you do have to explain why your actions dont match your words.

[BuJaber]

Doom doesn't have to reveal alignment, but as Mandy (and aage) suggested, he already soft-claimed dark.
A quick google and the wiki reveals that Shaisam (strike wolf) was in fact dark; so doom was right about that part anyway. Care to share how you came up with that conclusion?

I haven't played a rishaed game before so I'm not sure how revealing his night summaries tend to be but it is implying that strike was killed deliberately and intentionally by Mat.. so we probably have a vig.

Wing did you have a reason for not joining the bandwagon? Because it seems to me that your case on aage is pretty bare-boned at the moment. Do you just like to be different?