Israel

[Dukasaur]

Israel has bombed dozens of hospitals, in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria. Their bombings of hospitals have caused literally hundreds of direct deaths, thousands of indirect deaths (because of patients who didn't get treated when a hospital was forced to shut) and tens of thousands of lesser injuries.

But just one of their hospitals gets struck, with a few dozen injuries, and they absolutely lose their shit over it!

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

I think it's hilarious. I don't oppose Israel, I think they have every right to exist, and every right to attack those who wish them harm. But don't be fucking hypocrites. You fight dirty, you know you fight dirty, the whole world knows you fight dirty, so don't act all outraged when your enemies bring your chickens home to roost.

--------------REALLY ...
--------------Ever since the late 1970's ,early 1980's A.D...F*ck the oil...Alaska has enough oil for 500 years...
-------------- Americans hid in The Canadian Embassy , when Iranians took the U.S. Embassy over...They also took The U.S.S.R. Embassy over(The 2 Super Powers)...But as America cried...The hostages stayed for over 400 days...Until Reagan took over as President...He said, "We begin bombing in 5 minutes...(nuke)...They are Americans they'll die for their country..."...The next day, the American hostages were on their way home...Huge difference then A Democrat do nothing Carter...
-------------- The Russians handled it different...The KGB...Kidnapped the hostage takers families...The Russian Hostages didn't have to wait over 400 days to be free...The were free right away, back home in The Soviet Union...
---------------- Ever since those early days ...Iran has taught their children in schools...DEATH TO AMERICA
---------------- Canada hasn't faced this Middle Eastern Faction...Not just IRAN...
---------------- So spare, the BOO HOO the children are being bombed...
---------------- They will grow up to become HUMAN BOMBS for their cause of Destroying the WEST...
----------------The more Israel takes out...The less HUMAN BOMBS heading towards The United States of America and it's citizens Worldwide...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... ....Right next to Southwest Detroit,Mi.,...Is Dearborn,Mi...The Largest Arabic City,Area,Community...Outside Of The Middle East......I don't think they will blow themselves up here...Whew ...Although you still have to dodge the usual bullets flying around the city of Detroit...

Whatever you said about Reagan and Iran has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted.

I was chuckling about the hypocrisy of Nutty Yahoo, who has hospitals bombed on an almost daily basis in Gaza and Lebanon and Syria, but went all ballistically righteous yesterday (well, two days ago now) when one of his hospitals got hit for the first time. That is comedy gold; you can't make this up! And it isn't because they're at war with Iran -- it would be equally true if they were at war with Macedonia or Kazakhstan or Uruguay.

But if you do want to talk about Iran, just remember that it's your buddy Trump who put them on this course. By 2016, the Ayatollahs were fading out as a political force. A secular government had been elected in Iran and was engaged in the delicate task of prying power away from the religious nutjobs. When Trump came and tore up the peace deal, he humiliated the secular government and pushed them out of power, propelling the extremists back to the top. He breathed new life into the Ayatollahs, and everything that has happened with Iran's proxies in the (almost) decade since then can be put at his feet.

[jusplay4fun]

----------------SORRY JP4FUN.........
--------------------REAGAN DID SAY IT WHILE HE WAS RUNNING TO BE PRESIDENT(minus the 5 minutes....

and by ConfederateSS on Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:38 pm

when Iranians took the U.S. Embassy over...They also took The U.S.S.R. Embassy over(The 2 Super Powers)...But as America cried...The hostages stayed for over 400 days...Until Reagan took over as President...He said, "We begin bombing in 5 minutes...(nuke)...They are Americans they'll die for their country..."...The next day, the American hostages were on their way home...Huge difference then A Democrat do nothing Carter...

You are wrong, ConfedSS. Yes, Reagan said it while running for President, but in 1984, not in 1980. Your memory is faulty. If you do not trust me, research it yourself.

The font size or use of expletives do not change the facts, ConfedSS. And that comment was aimed at the Russians, NOT the Iranians. I cited my evidence; you use insults, large font, emojis, and ellipses. That is weak, ConfedSS, very weak.

I guess you missed the part in the quote about the legislation outlawing Russia:

On August 11, 1984, President Ronald Reagan makes a joking but controversial off-the-cuff remark about bombing Russia while testing a microphone before a scheduled radio address. While warming up for the speech, Reagan said “My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you today that I’ve signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.”

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/august-11/reagan-jokes-about-bombing-russia

I used font size 200 so you would not miss either part of that citation and quote, ConfedSS.

and speaking of Alaskan oil, you are off by about 100 times (or 495 years):

ConfederateSS wrote:

F*ck the oil...Alaska has enough oil for 500 years...

facts and estimates:

AI Overview
Alaska's proved crude oil reserves are estimated at nearly 3.4 billion barrels, the fourth largest in the U.S. The United States as a whole has substantial oil reserves, with Texas leading, followed by New Mexico, North Dakota, and then Alaska. While it's difficult to pinpoint the exact amount of oil left in the U.S., estimates suggest around 4.9 times the annual consumption remains, excluding unproven reserves.

Now 0-3, ConfedSS, counting Iraq vs. Iran. Whatever shred of credibility that you may have had is now getting shredded even more. Don't wear those tatters to the Party.

[Pack Rat]

I'd be careful about complaining about others when it comes to throwing out insults.

As far as how posters post, whether they go BOLD or the type of font or other technigue...you ain't the moderator here (thank goodness).

[HitRed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situation_Room

The Situation Room

[HitRed]

529886

[jusplay4fun]

I am almost finished reading the Autobiography of Pope Francis I, called Hope. I started the book before he died and its copyright is 2025. It is full of his wisdom, insights, and his humility and compassion. Nearly every page has a succinct statement that illustrates these wonderful traits of this incredible man. He speaks of many issues he faces as Leader of the world-wide Catholic Church and the 1.4 billion estimated Catholics.

He describes his pain and personal suffering as he laments wars and human conflicts. He continuously worked for peace during his papacy. He speaks at length about the Ukraine-Russia War, the conflict in Gaza, and other armed conflicts.

He describes poignantly an episode where two women are killed by an Israeli sniper. One is a cook for an home in Gaza for special needs children at a convent with nuns of Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity. The other woman was her mother. One is killed as she tries to drag the other to safety. This episode is relayed to the Pope by the Parish Priest there, who, like the Pope, is from Argentina, Father Gabriel Romanelli (on page 239 of my copy). There are many other similar sad stories of human suffering and senseless killings. I read this on 6/20/25.

[jusplay4fun]

I'd be careful about complaining about others when it comes to throwing out insults.
[/b][/size]

Yes, you should be careful, pack rat; you are not careful enough.

As far as how posters post, whether they go BOLD or the type of font or other technigue...you ain't the moderator here (thank goodness).

Not counting your use of ellipses, you committed FOUR errors in that one sentence alone: it's technique, not technigue, for one obvious error. Try harder pack rat.

[WILLIAMS5232]

CNN
By Maija Ehlinger, Jomana Karadsheh, Kareem El Damanhoury and Heather Chen, CNN

—
An Israeli military sniper shot and killed two women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

The mother and daughter were walking to the Sister’s Convent, the patriarchate said, when gunfire erupted. “One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety,” it added.


Seven others were also shot and wounded in the attack at the complex, where most Gaza’s Christian families have taken refuge since the start of the war, according to the patriarchate, which oversees Catholic Churches across Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

“No warning was given, no notification was provided,” the statement continued. “They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the parish, where there are no belligerents.”

Pope Francis on Sunday addressed the deaths at the Holy Family Parish, lamenting that “unarmed civilians are targets for bombs and gunfire” in Gaza and invoking scripture on war.

“I continue receiving very serious and sad news about Gaza. Unarmed civilians are targets for bombs and gunfire. And this has happened even within the parish complex of the Holy Family, where there are no terrorists, but families, children, people who are sick and have disabilities, sisters,” he said during his weekly Angelus prayer.

“Some are saying, ‘This is terrorism and war.’ Yes, it is war, it is terrorism. That is why Scripture says that ‘God puts an end to war… the bow he breaks and the spear he snaps,’” the Pope continued.


“Let us pray to the Lord for peace,” he added.

According to the patriarchate, Israel Defense Forces tanks also targeted the Convent of the Sisters of Mother Theresa, which houses 54 disabled people and is part of the church’s compound. The building’s generator, its only current source of electricity, as well as its fuel resources, solar panels and water tanks were also destroyed.

IDF rockets had made the convent “uninhabitable,” the statement said.

In response to a CNN request for comment about the incident, the Israel Defense Forces released a statement saying saying that no fatalities had been reported by Holy Family Parish representatives during a “dialogue” with the IDF as of Saturday morning. “A review of the IDF”s operational findings support this,” it added.

CNN has been unable to reach the Latin Patriarchate about the conversation described.

The IDF statement also said that it does not target civilians, and added that it is reviewing another incident near a second church in northern Gaza: “An initial review suggests that IDF troops, who were operating against Hamas terrorists in the area, operated against a threat that they identified in the area of the church.”


On Friday, UK lawmaker Layla Moran, a member of parliament for Oxford West and Abingdon, said that members of her family sheltering in the church were “beyond desperate and terrified” as conditions continued to worsen.

Moran on November 15 told the UK House of Commons that a family member who had been sheltering in the church had died. Citing accounts from her family, Moran added that electricity generators at the church had stopped.

“[My family] are reporting white phosphorous and gunfire into their compound,” she said. “The bin collector and the janitor have been shot and their bodies are laying outside and remain uncollected.”

CNN cannot independently verify the conditions in and around the church, nor the allegation of the use of incendiary munitions (which can be illegal in some circumstances).

Who is this guy that made this claim? What is his background? There's alot missing in this story.

I heard a guy say his friends 16yo daughter was at a music festival once, and she got assaulted to death, but since she was an infidel it wasn't considered adultery by the men who assaulted her. So those guys are in the clear. Lucky for them. I'm sure she deserved it, she was probably mean to the Palestinians on her tiktok. Don't ask me her name, dont know it, i just know it's true because the guy that told me paid me back the $20 I loaned him so I know he's trustworthy.

[HitRed]

June 21, 25 Adoration

Message from Jesus

Stand at the foot of the cross with my Mother and John. There, bringing everything to me all the troubles and worries but most of all bring to me your heart. The heart I created for you and you alone, bring it to me. Lo, I wait for the return of hearts to me. I see very well! I see all things and all people. No one hides from my sight. Bring the hearts of those who yet do not see me in their lives, the ones I go unnoticed and of no importance. These hurt me.

[HitRed]

Wed Jun 18, 2025 9:07 pm

Heard

Wait and see. - God

The wait is over.

[jusplay4fun]

Wed Jun 18, 2025 9:07 pm

Heard

Wait and see. - God

The wait is over.

are you referring to THIS?

U.S. attacks three Iranian nuclear sites, Trump says: Live updates
The U.S. attacked Fordo, Natanz and Eshahan, President Donald Trump said Saturday night on Truth Social.

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/middle-east/live-blog/israel-iran-conflict-rcna214241

I am not convinced that this was the "RIGHT" move at this time; I outlined my questions and concerns earlier.

Re: Israel
Postby jusplay4fun on Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:44 am
Assuming we use this terrible weapon on Iran, the real questions, for me anyway, are:
1) Will this end Iran's hope for a nuclear weapon to put on a missile? (Likely NOT)
2) How many years will such a bombing run using this weapon delay an Iranian NUKE?
3) How many retaliatory attacks will Iran launch against US targets, such as military installations and Embassies? 4) How much damage and how many lives and injuries will occur?
5) unintended consequences? (there nearly always are)

Details at this moment are a bit "sketchy" and not totally clear. And did Trump give diplomacy enough time? I know he delayed this apparent attack to give diplomacy and negotiations another chance.

[HitRed]

They [Israel] need to look to me and I will make their enemies my footstool. - God

[WILLIAMS5232]

times like these, makes everyone anxious. i don't think you can bomb the obiedience out of an 83 year old terrorist. i'm sure there will be some sort of grand attack. by iran itself, or a bunch of suicide bombers/shooters/truck through crowds type stuff.

i mean, i like trump. but sometimes saying that stupid stuff gets on my nerves. for instance you just bomb their project they been working on for years and years, and then say "now is the time for peace" like anybody really thinks they're just gonna say. "oh, i didn't know you were that serious. ok, i'll back off. lets talk about these tariffs." i mean, i hope trump don't think that and he's just trolling them.

whatever he did, he'd been wrong by somebody. so, i'm just gonna hope for a speedy outcome to all this.

capt picard said it best.

[jusplay4fun]

C'est la vie.

OKAY, I had time to THINK some more, so here is where I am at the moment on Bombing Iran's nuclear facilities with the B2 and using the Bunker Busting Bombs.

I think the decision to do so is certainly NOT a 100% and maybe as close as 51-49 matter. I talked in another thread about making tough decisions and reference President Obama's perspective on making Tough Decisions. What Obama said is a good read, and is appropriate for these times.
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=235685&start=600

It is clear to me that since 1979 that Iran has been in a low level conflict with the USA and Israel. The US taking out Qasem Soleimani in January 2020 was part of the overall effort in a low level conflict against Iran. For much of that time, especially in recent years, Iran acted via their proxies: Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and those in Syria. The overthrow of Assad in Syria (December 2024) rather unexpected, it seems to me was an Inflection Point. Soon after, Israel started going after Hamas in earnest and attacked Hezbollah in Lebanon. The masterful use of explosive pagers helped decapitate much of that Proxy Leadership on September 17, 2024. With their many proxies reduced significantly, Israel had the chance to strike against Iran and their nuclear program, something that has been in the news for several years, as I recall. Israel took out much of Iran's air defense, making the US air strike by the B2 Bombers a rather easy mission with low risk to the B2s.

There is a strong likelihood of a coordination between the US and Israel. Israel waited to strike until after Trump's 60 day deadline for negotiations had come and gone. I will also repeat that Trump gave Iran "up to 2 weeks" to negotiate before the B2 attack against Iran. In his statement, read by his Press Secretary, Karoline Leavitt, strongly hinted that Trump did not expect any progress on negotiations. [aside: I read a report just a few minutes ago (from The Atlantic , as I recall) that Trump had already made up his mind to bomb Iran as Karoline Leavitt is reading the statement.]

The reports of moving B2 bombers was also part of the smoke screen to keep Iran off-guard as the US planned to bomb Fordo (or Fordow).

One of the targets was Fordo, a uranium enrichment plant hidden in a remote mountainside that is vital to Iran's nuclear ambitions. We do not yet know the full scale of the damage at the facility.

The US says it also hit two other nuclear sites - at Natanz and Isfahan.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg9r4q99g4o

The likelihood that the US bombs would do major damage was NOT in doubt. The question is how much damage was done. There is apparently no radiation leaked, based on reports, again that I just read. I did hear a report that the US launch Tomahawk missiles from submarine(s) was something President Clinton did, but the use of the B2 was the major escalation to severely damage Fordo and set back Iran's nuclear program.

I believe that President Trump said that the Generals will hold a briefing or press conferences about the attack at 8 am, local time (and CCT). It is smart to let them provide details and to limit Trump's comment to a brief and read statement announcing the attack at 10 pm last night.

Now recall that Iran has backed attacks against the US for a LONG TIME. Recall the 1983 Beirut barracks bombings, terrorist bombing attacks against U.S. and French armed forces in Beirut on October 23, 1983 that claimed 299** lives. The attacks, which took place amid the sectarian conflict of the extremely damaging Lebanese Civil War (1975–90), hastened the removal of the international peacekeeping force from Lebanon in February 1984. Responsibility was claimed by a group calling itself Islamic Jihad, a largely unknown cell whose known figures were later associated with Hezbollah. (**244 US military personel.)
https://www.britannica.com/event/1983-Beirut-barracks-bombings

It seems that Trump is not TACO when it comes to Iran. However, I do not advocate using the US military to flex Trump's muscles.

As I said earlier, the concern is the aftermath and how Iran will retaliate. They will likely fire missiles and drones at Israel and possibly US Military facilities near Iran. I read that Iran will likely strike when the US forces are not on heightened alert, as they are NOW.

I think that this attack had the support, or tacit acquiescence, of major Arab nations, especially Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States, Iran may mine the Straits of Hormuz.
https://www.newsweek.com/iran-threat-shut-strait-hormuz-2088018


Does this attack make the world safer? Will peace be the lasting legacy? Will this prompt the Iranian people to overthrow their current government, which is basically a theocracy?

The answer to all such questions is NO (very unlikely for ALL 3 questions).

AI Overview
Yes, Iran is widely considered a theocracy. Its political system, established after the 1979 revolution, is a hybrid of theocratic and republican elements, but the supreme religious leader (Supreme Leader) holds ultimate authority, making it a theocracy, according to multiple sources. This system, known as Velayat-e-Faqih, places power in the hands of high-ranking Shia clerics.

Is the nuclear program for Iran set back signficantly? YES, BUT how much? We will have to wait to see the true impact from the technology perspective.

Is Iran set back as a power and player on the world stage? I say YES, for now. But the Iranian mullahs will try to get their revenge against the US and Israel.

I am not sure the world in now safer. I am worried about peace, but I do not expect a major war to begin because of this attack, as I heard some left wing speakers use as hyperbole.

Okay, enough for now. Time now to fill up my gas tank on my car. And continue to PRAY for Peace.

[jusplay4fun]

I guess the "Group" will give me the LAST WORD here.

YEAH, Right.

[kennyp72]

I've seen articles from the 80's were israel claims Iran is close to a nuclear weapon. They know more than me tho, I'm just a hick in mississippi.

I have no real sympathetic ties to Israel, other than I just like people in general and think they should be able to stay alive.

I also believe Iran would drop a nuke directly on Jerusalem regardless of israel attacking them if they could.

I figure when trump toured the middle east a few months ago he was basically asking for everyone's approval for the current situation.

A few years ago, I saw Rick Steve do an Iran special, (he does a travel Europe show, as nerdy as he is, it's quite a good show) but it seems the Iran people don't deserve their govt. And I've seen pictures of tehran before the 1979 restructure where it was a world class city.

It's hard for me to understand why people choose turmoil, even if you don't get the fair share of the cake, I would go try and build my own cake rather than be the guy no one wants at their party.

I don't guess Iran would have ever given up their nuclear program, no matter how much cake you give them, I just think they don't like parties. But it's a shame, I would love to visit all these places, it would be marvelous if we could live in a world with no borders, that's such a fairy tale tho.

You sir, have been propagandised.

[kennyp72]

You may recall that Israel claimed that IRAQ was close to getting a Nuclear (atomic) bomb:

[url]AI Overview
In the past, specifically in 1981, Israel claimed that Iraq was secretly planning to produce nuclear weapons and used this claim to justify its airstrike on Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor. At the time, Iraq denied these claims, stating that the reactor was intended for peaceful scientific research. [/url]

also:

Operation Opera (Hebrew: מִבְצָע אוֹפֵּרָה),[1] also known as Operation Babylon,[2] was a surprise airstrike conducted by the Israeli Air Force on 7 June 1981, which destroyed an unfinished Iraqi nuclear reactor located 17 kilometres (11 miles) southeast of Baghdad, Iraq.[3][4][5] The Israeli operation came a year after the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force had caused minor damage to the same nuclear facility in Operation Scorch Sword, with the damage having been subsequently repaired by French technicians. Operation Opera, and related Israeli government statements following it, established the Begin Doctrine, which explicitly stated the strike was not an anomaly, but instead "a precedent for every future government in Israel". Israel's counter-proliferation preventive strike added another dimension to its existing policy of deliberate ambiguity, as it related to the nuclear weapons capability of other states in the region.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

But what do I know? I am only in VA and I only know what I experience, observe, read, remember, and can conclude from reasonable facts.

Can't have happened as bombing nuclear facilities amounts to a war crime, or so I was told by the BBC regards Russia attacking Ukraine

[kennyp72]

Israel has bombed dozens of hospitals, in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria. Their bombings of hospitals have caused literally hundreds of direct deaths, thousands of indirect deaths (because of patients who didn't get treated when a hospital was forced to shut) and tens of thousands of lesser injuries.

But just one of their hospitals gets struck, with a few dozen injuries, and they absolutely lose their shit over it!

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

I think it's hilarious. I don't oppose Israel, I think they have every right to exist, and every right to attack those who wish them harm. But don't be fucking hypocrites. You fight dirty, you know you fight dirty, the whole world knows you fight dirty, so don't act all outraged when your enemies bring your chickens home to roost.

Israel does exist. What makes you think it has a right to though? What law gives it this right?

[kennyp72]

times like these, makes everyone anxious. i don't think you can bomb the obiedience out of an 83 year old terrorist. i'm sure there will be some sort of grand attack. by iran itself, or a bunch of suicide bombers/shooters/truck through crowds type stuff.

i mean, i like trump. but sometimes saying that stupid stuff gets on my nerves. for instance you just bomb their project they been working on for years and years, and then say "now is the time for peace" like anybody really thinks they're just gonna say. "oh, i didn't know you were that serious. ok, i'll back off. lets talk about these tariffs." i mean, i hope trump don't think that and he's just trolling them.

whatever he did, he'd been wrong by somebody. so, i'm just gonna hope for a speedy outcome to all this.

capt picard said it best.

Maybe they should set off some car bombs, like Israel has in Tehran, or perhaps have some electronic devices like pagers explode, like Israel did in Lebanon.

[WILLIAMS5232]

times like these, makes everyone anxious. i don't think you can bomb the obiedience out of an 83 year old terrorist. i'm sure there will be some sort of grand attack. by iran itself, or a bunch of suicide bombers/shooters/truck through crowds type stuff.

i mean, i like trump. but sometimes saying that stupid stuff gets on my nerves. for instance you just bomb their project they been working on for years and years, and then say "now is the time for peace" like anybody really thinks they're just gonna say. "oh, i didn't know you were that serious. ok, i'll back off. lets talk about these tariffs." i mean, i hope trump don't think that and he's just trolling them.

whatever he did, he'd been wrong by somebody. so, i'm just gonna hope for a speedy outcome to all this.

capt picard said it best.

Maybe they should set off some car bombs, like Israel has in Tehran, or perhaps have some electronic devices like pagers explode, like Israel did in Lebanon.

OK, I think I understand what you're getting at, basically, what you're saying is "A good, B bad"

[HitRed]

Israel can do no wrong. - God

[mookiemcgee]

Imagine believing in a god that is so non-omnipotent that it chooses sides in human wars where both sides are fighting for that same god lol.

[HitRed]

God is not neutral.

[mookiemcgee]

God is not neutral.

Muslims across the globe agree with you!

[Dukasaur]

Israel has bombed dozens of hospitals, in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria. Their bombings of hospitals have caused literally hundreds of direct deaths, thousands of indirect deaths (because of patients who didn't get treated when a hospital was forced to shut) and tens of thousands of lesser injuries.

But just one of their hospitals gets struck, with a few dozen injuries, and they absolutely lose their shit over it!

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

I think it's hilarious. I don't oppose Israel, I think they have every right to exist, and every right to attack those who wish them harm. But don't be fucking hypocrites. You fight dirty, you know you fight dirty, the whole world knows you fight dirty, so don't act all outraged when your enemies bring your chickens home to roost.

Israel does exist. What makes you think it has a right to though? What law gives it this right?

This thread is not big enough for a philosophical debate on the nature of rights.

International law is a toothless tiger. Real tigers depend on their teeth to enforce their right to survive. I guess nations do to.

Without getting into a massive essay I don't have the energy for, there are two basic ways for nations to survive: to be friends with all their neighbours, or to be capable of beating the shit out of all their neighbours. (Or some hybrid between the two.)

Unfortunately, being the one Jewish state in a sea of Muslim states, Israel is in a position where friendship with its neighbours is not a viable option, so it relies mostly on Method 2, with what little of Method 1 becomes available from time to time. That makes it seem horrendously bellicose, but I suspect most people in Israel would gladly switch to Method 1 if it was an option.