Debate Open: Is it legal to throw a game I'm going to lose?

[eroyce]

Here's the question. I'm in a game: 1033062 (will probably be over before most people read this), where I am starting to see the writing on the wall. It looks to me like I will lose. Is it cheating if I make an alliance with the higher ranked player to lose to him instead of the lower ranked player, thus preserving more points?

The rule I believe this may be in violation of is - "Unwritten Rules ...This includes but is not limited to: throwing games...". If I'm already going to lose, is this really throwing the game? Any discussion points people may have would be welcome in this moral debate.

[Peaceful Warrior]

Still not ethical in my books.

[hwhrhett]

its not against the rules, but is definately worth bad feedback.

dishonorable at best. dont do it.

[Piestar]

In the real world, that would be considered smart... but I thought the formula for points you lost was totaaly based on a perceantage of how many you have, and that when you go out didn't make a difference. Am I wrong on this?

As to legal, yes, of course, as long as it is all above board, and not a deal made secretly.

[BaldAdonis]

You give up too easily. I've won from worse positions than that, and it's especially easy in a three player game to hang back and let the others fight it out. The best way to save yourself points is to win.

[eroyce]

You give up too easily. I've won from worse positions than that, and it's especially easy in a three player game to hang back and let the others fight it out. The best way to save yourself points is to win.

I agree, it's not completely over, but I can see the writing on the wall. As a stretegic move, I thought I might hedge my bets with this "potential point preservation" strategy (just for fun, we'll call it the PPP strategy). If things continue to go downhill, say the other players decide I might still have a chance and know that I have come back to beat them in the past, doesn't this make the most sense, that is if it is on the up and up?

[Peaceful Warrior]

Sorry, your argument makes no sense.

[freezie]

Depend on how you throw it. Stop playing, easy enough to warrant a feedback, and a needed one.

Throwing it for someone else, though, is considered ( for a good reason ) against the rules.

Don't do it. Period. You might even win too.

[king achilles]

With all due respect, this is not the right forum for this. You don't need a poll to influence your judgment.

Will you throw or give the game to another player just because you are losing to save points? You better hope that would not happen to you. Some people define good sportsmanship as treating the people that you play with and against as you'd like to be treated yourself. I suggest that you play the game as it is meant to be.

[Herakilla]

With all due respect, this is not the right forum for this. You don't need a poll to influence your judgment.

Will you throw or give the game to another player just because you are losing to save points? You better hope that would not happen to you. Some people define good sportsmanship as treating the people that you play with and against as you'd like to be treated yourself. I suggest that you play the game as it is meant to be.

perfectly said

and i have won when being beaten down to one territory in a no cards game b4

[eroyce]

With all due respect, this is not the right forum for this. You don't need a poll to influence your judgment.

Will you throw or give the game to another player just because you are losing to save points? You better hope that would not happen to you. Some people define good sportsmanship as treating the people that you play with and against as you'd like to be treated yourself. I suggest that you play the game as it is meant to be.

perfectly said

and i have won when being beaten down to one territory in a no cards game b4

Three points to counter with:

1. The reason I chose this forum was because I was concerned if I was cheating or not. This seemed like a gray area of the rules, hence I posted it where i thought I would get the most relevant feedback to assure I wasn't going against the rules. I used the poll function because it seems like a concise way to get that feedback, especially with a question that I know will have multiple views on it. Where else might this discussion be posted if there is a question of rule interpretation?

2. I agree that posting this question regarding the specific game in question is not the best example as there is still much game left to be played, but I still believe I will be beaten, and I wanted to air out the question while I still had a chance to take action one way or another.

3. And lastly, I don't know that I agree with your "treating people how I would want to be treated" and "play the game as it is meant to be played". My rational for this is that I expect all opponents to be out to primarily win, but to secondarily do the best that they can. If I know I'm going to lose, the best that I can do it to lose to a higher ranked player. If all players were acting in their own best interest, I would expect all players to do as I am proposing. As to the "play as it is meant to be played", what does that mean really? Seems like a convoluted way of saying not to think strategically about the outcome of the game. If that isn't what you are saying, perhaps you mean that I should not change strategies in the middle of the game. Perhaps I simply don't understand at all where you are coming from with this, but neither of those ways of understanding your statement make sense to put into action.

As a side note, I do appreciate the comments people have contributed because I find this an interesting question of strategy.

[hwhrhett]

i too have come back from impossible situations to win the game, never say die should be written in the back of any risk strategy handbook.

[jiminski]

i too have come back from impossible situations to win the game, never say die should be written in the back of any risk strategy handbook.

I agree!
we all do give up too easily sometimes... but you have to remember that the terrible dice, weak defense or perhaps even drunken maneuvers ... can also change sides at any time!

[cena-rules]

legal but not ethical

[PLAYER57832]

It is not OK to throw a game. However, three are times when a player may decide their only chance is to make a full-out risky gambit ... and that might seem like a suicide, particularly if it fails.

The only exception I can see is if something happens so you know you won't be able to take your next turn ... then, MAYBE, if both/all players think the game is over, suiciding might be better than deadbeating.

[BaldAdonis]

Some people define good sportsmanship as treating the people that you play with and against as you'd like to be treated yourself.

If this happened in one of my games, I'd be alright with it. Almost anyone ranked higher than me knows not to give up, so the lower ranked players would be diving over each other to kill lower ranked players so that I can win.

eroyce, if you actually think you're out of the game, then you might as well smash into someone, cause it's really fun, and deciding who to attack is where all kinds of factors come into play: who wished you gl first; who's colour you like best; who attacked you last; who attacked you first; who attacked you the most; who attacked your favourite territory; what your magic 8 ball says; and who has the most points. Any of these is as legitimate as the rest.

[Sammy gags]

i think the staff and allot of high ranked payers, would like ALL players to play exactly the same with the same strategy and outcome and they feel anyone who plays for any different reasons then them are stupid and that they are breaking "unwritten rules" and deserve to be banned or shunned.

bottom line is, its a fucking game on the internet without wagering.

so as long as u don't have 2 accounts or have a secret alliance do as you please. you spent 20$ to numb your mind and detach yourself from the real world so make sure you get your moneys worth and don't worry about what the low lifes say or think.

and if thats not good enough for some people then maybe this site isn't good enough for u.
make the alliance!

[Herakilla]

want some encouragement not to throw a game?

here

by turn 12 i was down to one territory but with a little patience and luck i came out on top

[Butswana]

your going on my ignore list for just asking that dumb of a question.

[KoE_Sirius]

Never give up.!!!!!

[Genghis Khan CA]

Legal? yes

Sad and lame? yes

Never give up on a game until your final army is extinguished, especially since you weren't in all that fatal a position when you posted (even though it was a bad position).

Personally I think suiciding for the sole reason of ensuring that a lower ranked player can't win is very poor form. It is not wrong to hope that a higher rank wins so you lose less points, but seeking to destroy one players prospects when they have played a good game for the sake of a couple of points is pretty sad in my books.

[owenshooter]

i never quit. when i first started playing i had guys come back on me when i was certain games are over. i find that alot of people tend to think games are over and let their guard down, and you can easily come back and win. just takes some patience and skill... OR, you just have to be a total bad ass like i am.-0

[fireheart]

I do not think this illegal. But why go for the least amount of points lost? Go for the win always. Three player games can go back and forth like crazy. If you work with the other lower powered player against the winning player, it can totally change the game in a couple of turns. I have had three player games that have taken a month to finish.

Once I came one army away from taking out a player in a game. We were down to three players at this point. I got bad dice right at the end of my turn. He had one army left on the board. He cashed a set and totally clobbered me back. He ended up winning that game, but I had him all but eliminated half way through the game.

Personally I think the only things that are illegal are the things that are in the rule books. Really great strategy game players use the rules of the games to their full advantage. It is weak to just give up. I always figure that if I am going to lose, I might as well lose in a blaze of glory and go out with my fists up. I do not play for the points though. I play each game as its own match.

[king achilles]

1. General Discussion is the proper forum for this.
2 and 3. Play to win. Let's say you choose player B over player C because you will lose less points. Then let's warn the others from now on since lower ranks will have to play doubly harder when they are up against you because you will give the game to the higher rank player if you start to lose. If that is your strategy, then be ready for all the negative feedbacks that you might receive for that. And this poll will also be a good source of information about this possible strategy that you might take. I hope you can prove your point here because if some lower rank player happens to read this and this player loses with you in a 3 player game, they might get ideas why they lost even if you didn't do anything to choose who wins the game.

[bedub1]

Just make it a public alliance and you can do whatever.....actions that could be identified as a "secret alliance" are against the rules....so make sure you publicly announce it....