Who desrves the Iron Throne?

[Symmetry]

This is a thread for GoT fans to say who actually should win the game.

Nobody cares if you think Daenerys is hot, or Jon is a secret royal. That's for other threads.

Who should be in charge at the end and why?

[Symmetry]

Lady Mormont



Pros: Already a leader, makes the Starks at that age look like wolf-nannied wimps.

Cons: Young, Not magic.

[tkr4lf]

Honestly, none of them really deserve it. They all have massive cons. I would have said Danny but she's become rather annoying since returning to Westeros. Maybe Jon Snow? At least he's honorable and would do the right thing, but he's too much like Ned and would piss someone off and end up murdered, again.

[Dukasaur]

Why should there be an Iron Throne at all? It has always represented nothing but imperialist exploitation by the Targaryens. Why should the nations of Westeros not throw off their shackles and become a loose confederacy of self-governing states? Saw the Iron Throne into segments and let every nation take home a segment, to be displayed in their central town square as a reminder of what evil looks like. You might say this is too idealistic for the time, but remember that institutions like the Swiss Confederacy were born in our medieval age, out of similar circumstances.

If you must have one ruler, my vote is for Sansa Stark. She has no major cons. Yes, she was a foolish and shallow girl before the War. That's natural for a 14-year old. As she has matured, she has gained wisdom at a tremendous pace. She's shown herself to be a good and competent ruler since taking over Winterfell, and still very young. She's suffered a lot, but not enough to make her bitter and full of hate. As far as legalisms go, Sansa's marriage to Tyrion was never consummated but also never annulled. If, as I think there are very strong indications, Tyrion is a Targaryen, consummating that marriage might be the missing ingredient needed. It could be a personal union of North and South, in the style of Ferdinand and Isabela in our world.

[strike wolf]

The Night King. No one has an army of loyal followers like him. He must be doing something right.

[mookiemcgee]

Lady Mormont



Pros: Already a leader, makes the Starks at that age look like wolf-nannied wimps.

Cons: Young, Not magic.

Wrong!

[strike wolf]

The Mormonts are officially the 2nd most badass family in GoT. Or would be if any of them were left...

[mookiemcgee]

My official opinion (though the bad guys never win) is Cersei. She's earned it through smart governance and deal making.

She is the Donald Trump of GOT. Make deals with your enemies and break them. Make deals with your allies and break them. Put Cersei first over all others. Threaten to put all your opponents in jail (or murder em)

[Symmetry]

My official opinion (though the bad guys never win) is Cersei. She's earned it through smart governance and deal making.

She is the Donald Trump of GOT. Make deals with your enemies and break them. Make deals with your allies and break them. Put Cersei first over all others. Threaten to put all your opponents in jail (or murder em)

She's probably the most ruthless of the contenders. She really doesn't know how to make friends though, or to get anyone to do anything but a kind of Machiavellian fear. She's no Trump though. I think the comparison somehow does a disservice to both of them.

[Symmetry]

Why should there be an Iron Throne at all? It has always represented nothing but imperialist exploitation by the Targaryens. Why should the nations of Westeros not throw off their shackles and become a loose confederacy of self-governing states? Saw the Iron Throne into segments and let every nation take home a segment, to be displayed in their central town square as a reminder of what evil looks like. You might say this is too idealistic for the time, but remember that institutions like the Swiss Confederacy were born in our medieval age, out of similar circumstances.

If you must have one ruler, my vote is for Sansa Stark. She has no major cons. Yes, she was a foolish and shallow girl before the War. That's natural for a 14-year old. As she has matured, she has gained wisdom at a tremendous pace. She's shown herself to be a good and competent ruler since taking over Winterfell, and still very young. She's suffered a lot, but not enough to make her bitter and full of hate. As far as legalisms go, Sansa's marriage to Tyrion was never consummated but also never annulled. If, as I think there are very strong indications, Tyrion is a Targaryen, consummating that marriage might be the missing ingredient needed. It could be a personal union of North and South, in the style of Ferdinand and Isabela in our world.

Tyrion is a Targaryen? The dragons weren't big fans of his, to be fair.

In spite of the events of the last episode, I'm still in the pro- Lady Mormont faction.

[Dukasaur]

Why should there be an Iron Throne at all? It has always represented nothing but imperialist exploitation by the Targaryens. Why should the nations of Westeros not throw off their shackles and become a loose confederacy of self-governing states? Saw the Iron Throne into segments and let every nation take home a segment, to be displayed in their central town square as a reminder of what evil looks like. You might say this is too idealistic for the time, but remember that institutions like the Swiss Confederacy were born in our medieval age, out of similar circumstances.

If you must have one ruler, my vote is for Sansa Stark. She has no major cons. Yes, she was a foolish and shallow girl before the War. That's natural for a 14-year old. As she has matured, she has gained wisdom at a tremendous pace. She's shown herself to be a good and competent ruler since taking over Winterfell, and still very young. She's suffered a lot, but not enough to make her bitter and full of hate. As far as legalisms go, Sansa's marriage to Tyrion was never consummated but also never annulled. If, as I think there are very strong indications, Tyrion is a Targaryen, consummating that marriage might be the missing ingredient needed. It could be a personal union of North and South, in the style of Ferdinand and Isabela in our world.

Tyrion is a Targaryen? The dragons weren't big fans of his, to be fair.

In spite of the events of the last episode, I'm still in the pro- Lady Mormont faction.

Not taking anything away from her. She was a fine young lady, inherited a lot of heavy responsibility very young and handled it well.

Still, now that she's dead I suppose it's moot whether she would have risen higher, had she lived.

Moving on...

Why do you say the dragons weren't fans of Tyrion? Seems they got along swimmingly.


Anyway, I know that Tyrion's parentage is still debated, but to me the hints that he's a Targaryen are everywhere. The fact that he gets on well with dragons is one point, but to me the most definitive piece of evidence is that it's the only thing that explains the depths of Tywin's disgust for him. Good ol' Mad King Aerys took whatever he wanted from his vassals, and one thing he wanted from Tywin was a roll with his wife Joanna. Tywin often said that giving birth to Tyrion killed her and that was the reason for his resentment of Tyrion. Personally, I don't believe it. Lots of women die in childbirth; this is no reason to hold a grudge against the child. I think the real source of Tywin's contempt is that he knows Tyrion is not his but Aerys'. The story might be darker than we realize.

[Symmetry]

Hmm, so no serious reply to the Lady Mormont question- as people who actually watch the show know, she was brought back from the dead. As my new face tattoo says "12134Life"

Tyrion has been kind of a moron for the last few seasons. Him being the one true Targaeryen would just be dumb.

[Dukasaur]

Hmm, so no serious reply to the Lady Mormont question- as people who actually watch the show know, she was brought back from the dead. As my new face tattoo says "12134Life"

How is this not a serious reply?

Not taking anything away from her. She was a fine young lady, inherited a lot of heavy responsibility very young and handled it well.

She hasn't been brought back to life. Like the other casualties in the Battle of Winterfell, she rose when the Night King summoned the dead. That would make her a wight. Not alive, but animated dead, in the norms of mythology. In any case, that too has been taken away from her; when the Night King died all the wights went back to being fully dead.

Tyrion has been kind of a moron for the last few seasons. Him being the one true Targaeryen would just be dumb.

It's pretty funny -- he had one lapse of judgement and all of a sudden everybody's calling him a moron. The audience is pretty fickle. A year ago everybody was calling him the smartest man in the entire GoT universe. It's as if Rocky Marciano lost one fight and everybody started calling him a loser.

In any case, nobody is saying he's the one true Targaryen. He is a Targaryen bastard; that makes him at best third-in-line, and possibly even lower.

[Symmetry]

Hmm, so no serious reply to the Lady Mormont question- as people who actually watch the show know, she was brought back from the dead. As my new face tattoo says "12134Life"

How is this not a serious reply?

Not taking anything away from her. She was a fine young lady, inherited a lot of heavy responsibility very young and handled it well.

She hasn't been brought back to life. Like the other casualties in the Battle of Winterfell, she rose when the Night King summoned the dead. That would make her a wight. Not alive, but animated dead, in the norms of mythology. In any case, that too has been taken away from her; when the Night King died all the wights went back to being fully dead.

Tyrion has been kind of a moron for the last few seasons. Him being the one true Targaeryen would just be dumb.

It's pretty funny -- he had one lapse of judgement and all of a sudden everybody's calling him a moron. The audience is pretty fickle. A year ago everybody was calling him the smartest man in the entire GoT universe. It's as if Rocky Marciano lost one fight and everybody started calling him a loser.

In any case, nobody is saying he's the one true Targaryen. He is a Targaryen bastard; that makes him at best third-in-line, and possibly even lower.

Quick question- can you pick one piece of advice that Tyrion has given as the hand to Daenerys apart from trusting Jon about the dead folk that was a good idea?

[thegreekdog]

Up until recently, I thought Littlefinger deserved the throne; he rose the farthest and the fastest. Unfortunately, he was murdered without trial by those unhinged northerners.

As far as who is deserving, of the people still left alive, the best player is Cersei.

[Symmetry]

Up until recently, I thought Littlefinger deserved the throne; he rose the farthest and the fastest. Unfortunately, he was murdered without trial by those unhinged northerners.

As far as who is deserving, of the people still left alive, the best player is Cersei.

I really think there could have been a few subtle things that Littlefinger could have done that would have helped him win the Iron Throne.

Things he could have tried

1) Not being a pimp who ran the biggest brothel in Kings Landing
2) Not explained all of his plots to all the prostitutes in said brothel during prostitute training sessions
3) Not hit on the daughter of his ex. (Bojack Horseman much?)
4) Did he kill a kid? Seems like a lot of people just straight out murder kids. He probably killed that weird kid. I forget, but he probably shouldn't have if he did.
5) Not sold Sansa to a house whose banner is about skinning people (See exhibit A)

Exhibit A:



No offence, of course, to anyone with SS in their name.

[Dukasaur]

Up until recently, I thought Littlefinger deserved the throne; he rose the farthest and the fastest. Unfortunately, he was murdered without trial by those unhinged northerners.

As far as who is deserving, of the people still left alive, the best player is Cersei.

Au contraire, Cersei is a hopeless basketcase. With each action, her world gets smaller and smaller. She lost the North early on, the South soon afterward. She lost the support of the Faith, of the Citadel, of the economic heartlands of the Reach and the Riverlands. She's burned up most of the Lannister army through death or desertion and hasn't really any way of replacing the losses. She's lost Casterly Rock and all the Lannister commercial empire. All the best minds have left the capital. She's massively in debt and has doubled down and gone deeper into debt to gamble on retaking what she's lost. It can't work, economically speaking. The only territory she really holds is King's Landing and its immediate hinterlands. It has no real economic base. It was always subsidized through a plunder economy, and with so much of Westoros in waste, there's not much left to plunder. It won't be long before she's down in the Fuhrer-bunker with nobody except Qyburn and the remnants of the Mountain.

[strike wolf]

Yeah Cersei just has fear keeping the last few soldiers in line. Actually Littlefinger and Cersei have similar issues. Neither really knows how to keep their friends on their side. If the other houses begin to feel like Jon and Dany have a chance (and when they hear about their harrowing victory over an army of the dead that could be a real possibility), they'll rally behind them to replace the army that the North and Dany lost in this battle. Jon is the true heir to the throne though Sansa has proven herself a more than capable leader. I kinda see him winning the throne and her as his hand where the true ruling happens anyways. Though that would hardly be the most GoT ending ever. Not much of a surprise really.

Side note: I always have hated the Tyrion is a secret Targaryen theory. One secret Targaryen (Jon) is a cool twist. Two is pushing it. I don't consider the dragon thing much evidence. That seemed more the dragons being intelligent and realizing he was there to help them than them recognizing him as Targaryen. They had a much more positive reaction to Jon.

[thegreekdog]

Up until recently, I thought Littlefinger deserved the throne; he rose the farthest and the fastest. Unfortunately, he was murdered without trial by those unhinged northerners.

As far as who is deserving, of the people still left alive, the best player is Cersei.

I really think there could have been a few subtle things that Littlefinger could have done that would have helped him win the Iron Throne.

Things he could have tried

1) Not being a pimp who ran the biggest brothel in Kings Landing
2) Not explained all of his plots to all the prostitutes in said brothel during prostitute training sessions
3) Not hit on the daughter of his ex. (Bojack Horseman much?)
4) Did he kill a kid? Seems like a lot of people just straight out murder kids. He probably killed that weird kid. I forget, but he probably shouldn't have if he did.
5) Not sold Sansa to a house whose banner is about skinning people (See exhibit A)

Exhibit A:



No offence, of course, to anyone with SS in their name.

I think I was confused about the question. If the question is who "deserves" the Iron Throne outside of the context of who has played the game the best, I would say one of Dany, Jon, or Gendry, in no particular order, given that all three of them have royal blood.

If the question is who played the game well, I still think it was Littlefinger up until Arya killed him. I mean, yeah, he was a complete shit but those types of people sometimes win and sometimes win in the world GRRM created.

[jimboston]

Lord Samwell Tarly



He’s smart.
He’s got a kind heart.
He’s proven himself brave.
He’s proven we’s willing to make the right decision even though others tell him he’s wrong.
He’s willing to break rules to do what he feels is right.
His compass/judgement has proven to be correct.

He knows that the Dany is not the right person to sit on the Throne, so he’s currently pushing Jon to take that role, only because he knows Jon is a good man. He doesn’t know that Jon is stupid and in love and can make mistakes for love.

He unfortunately doesn’t know that Jon Snow Knows Nothing... but he’ll figure that out and he’ll take the Throne for the people of Westeros.

Also he’s the GRRM analog for the series.... GRRM has set it up se ‘he’ will win the Game of Thrones.

[strike wolf]

He's brave=spent most of the battle against the dead running away or hiding.

[jimboston]

“Being brave doesn’t mean you aren’t scared. Being brave means you are scared, really scared, badly scared, and you do the right thing anyway.”

Neil Gaiman - Coraline

He did try to fight in the Battle of Winterfell. He didn’t try to hide in the crypt even though it was suggested he do so, and no one would’ve judged him harshly if he had. Still he stayed up top and joined in the fight.

[jimboston]

“Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the assessment that something else is more important than fear.”

Franklin D. Roosevelt

[jimboston]

‘Courage is not the absence of fear, but the mastery of it.“

Mark Twain

[Dukasaur]

Nice!