Revenge Feedback

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:15 am

When I get a complaint about feedback, the first thing I do is check whether the complainer left negative feedback in revenge. Half of the time they do, and it really makes me mad

There is a place for you to respond to negative feedback on your *own* feedback page.

I'm worried that revenge feedback is such a problem that many members don't bother leaving negative feedback anymore because they fear one will come right back.

I expanded on the definition of "revenge" feedback in the guidelines:

Guidelines for leaving feedback:

* Leave only fair and factual comments that relate to a specific game.
* Try to resolve any issues with other members before leaving negative feedback.
* Do not leave feedback for trivial things like missing a turn.
* Do not use foul language.
* Do not accuse people of having multiple accounts (if you suspect a multi, post a topic about it in the forum).
* Do not leave leave negative feedback because someone left you negative feedback.

... but I doubt that's enough! One idea is to block members from leaving negative leaving feedback against someone who left them negative feedback first. Of course, then if two people have legitimate reasons to rail on each other, it becomes a race, which is silly. There could be a cool-off period where you are blocked for a week or so...

What do you think we should do to fight "revenge" feedback??

Twill · Post by **Twill** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:26 am

I'd be up for a 2 day cool down after negative feedback...people will either forget or report it in that time. and it's a good mix between people who rarely log in and making sure it's not too long for a legit complaint.

just my thoughts

KoolBak · Post by **KoolBak** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:33 am

I think you guys hit the nail on the head...very nice....

I was awfully tempted to leave a neg in trade for the neg I got but figured that was juvenile.....maybe when the average age gets to be above 16 these problems will decrease...LOL!!!

joeyjordison · Post by **joeyjordison** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:48 am

i think a 2 day cool down period would b gd but i think the real problem is imature people who feel they need to leave unnescessary negative feedback. its just a thought but could there be a feedback mod? also would it be fair to ban people from leaving feedback if they abuse the system?

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:33 pm

We already have feedback moderators. You can click on the repert abuse link and a moderator will follow up on your complaint.

How about a mandatory checkbox: "This feedback meets the guidelines" that you have to check off when you leave feedback?

fighter1405 · Post by **fighter1405** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:19 pm

I think he meant a dedicated feedback mod that coud spend almst all their time looking at the feedback and seeing if itwas legit.

If you need any help I'm willing to help

KoolBak · Post by **KoolBak** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:48 pm

Lack - say said checkbox was implemented and some pilgrim checked it as a matter of course while leaving bad FB....then say the receiving person complained that the FB was inappropriate, the mod concurs and it is obvious that the FB leaver broke the rules....could one action remove the FB AND block the offending person from leaving FB for the original person into the future? Perhaps a three strike rule...if it happens 3 times, the person is blocked from the ability to leave FB all together??

wcaclimbing · Post by **wcaclimbing** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:53 pm

is
"he joined our team game, didn't take any turns (not even his first turn, and then deadbeated"
considered OK feedback?

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:54 pm

figher, with over 3800+ active users and feedback changing constantly, that's not really a viable solution. Unless there's a complaint, or we happen to run across it (and yes, I occasionally will click on random ones), we need something else in place other than trying to rely on everyone to act like adults, as that obviously doesn't work with this crowd.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:57 pm

wcaclimbing wrote:is
"he joined our team game, didn't take any turns (not even his first turn, and then deadbeated"
considered OK feedback?

yes

Pedronicus · Post by **Pedronicus** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:04 pm

What about leaving a msn conversation to go and Watch Dame Edna Everage on TV?

tals · Post by **tals** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:30 pm

I think it works ok as it is, the revenge feedback issue effects ebay. However unlike ebay you can easily go into the game in question and check out the dialogue to take your own view.

Tals

zip_disk · Post by **zip_disk** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:55 am

I wrote a thread for grievance suggestions back in the pre-feedback days. Some of its outdated now. I'll quote and edit the semi-relevant portions.

2. Have a single linked feedback between players instead of counting both grievance charges and counters flying about (for the same game). Currently both need to be checked separately, this would reduce mod workload since both charges would be in the same place. Say a player files a charge against another and the opponent has a chance to respond/counterattack (but doesn't need to), the second player can't file a separate counter grievance since the existing one covers it. They just respond to the charge and make their case for their own neg feedback in it if necessary.

3. Moderator's rulings would favor 1 player or the other, or be neutral due to accuser withdrawing charges or rules not being clear. If the accusers' charge is found to be incorrect, the accuser gets a real grievance against them instead and the other players' pending charge is removed. In this way you had better be sure that what happened is an actual offense (ie. ask the forum, rules state it, etc.).

Edit: Basically the negative feedback is not removed, its just marked whether it was determined to be correct or not. Allow the mod to leave a little note to it. Perhaps change the color of the text or background to show a moderators ruling. Red for agreement on the negative feedback, yellow or grey for neutralized feedback. You don't even have to give a person who first gave pointless negative feedback a negative themselves. Just the accumulation of neutralized feedback accusations which is recorded in their own feedback should say enough.

4. To allow the above to occur, clear rules must be available on what a grievance charge can be filed over. I've seen some really silly charges on people. Such as whether deadbeating a single turn is an offense (not to me), or degree of teamwork in team games.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:58 am

I support the checkbox idea. While it is annoying, I question whether revenge feedback is a real problem that requires a drastic solution.

Revenge feedback seems quite easy to spot, and if a player has a feedback record of 30-2, I'll fanatically click on that record to see who got them for what. Mostly I'm disappointed... it's either something ludicrous or revenge feedback. Real concerns (alstergren et al's deadbeating, Robinette/enterprise47, panzermeyer's thing, etc.) spill into the forums. My point is that as far as my personal experience is concerned it's not affecting the overall functioning of the feedback system.

Since it's not breaking the system, the problem is that rules are being transgressed by hotheads. How about, after clicking to leave negative feedback, the person is sent to a page spelling out, in large bold, the rules for negative feedback. Then, at the bottom, there's a "Continue" button. I'm only saying this because a checkbox is totally easy to ignore...

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:36 am

Well just yesterday, I sent about 10 PM's for revenge feedback just from random clicking. Revenge feedback is defintely the most popular. :roll:

I see it less with the "30-2" feedbacks and more with the "3-2".

Keep in mind that we can't selectively delete parts of the comment, only the whole thing. So if part of what you write fails to follow the guidelines, the whole thing gets deleted.

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:02 am

Shouldn't you be more worried about positive revenge feedback. Im pretty sure thats much more widespread.

Pedronicus · Post by **Pedronicus** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:02 am

Who really gives a shit?

I leave negative feedback from time to time - and If I received revenge feedback I'd laugh at it - add a note pointing out its revenge feedback - and go back to playing CC.

If anyone gets hot under the collar over a load of written lies - then they must get REALLY pissed off when they are killed in a game.

It just goes with the territory - this site has a lot of children.. you just have to learn to deal with it.

*awaits a huge amount of negative feedback*

gavin_sidhu wrote:Shouldn't you be more worried about positive revenge feedback. Im pretty sure thats much more widespread.

Gavins got a good point... 1/2 of all positive feedback just comes from people who are returning the favour.

Phobia · Post by **Phobia** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:48 pm

i was tempted to give squatchley "revenge feedback" for giving me one...however sorceressjade pretty much summed up how much he is a multi scum :roll:

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:27 pm

Even though some of us don't care if we get a negative or two, others really do and I feel that keeps them from using feedback. Some real poor sports are therefore getting away with a clean record.

We could have a confirmation/warning page that only appears when you're leaving neg feedback on someone who already gave you a negative...

But I agree that revenge positive is equally problematic. If people are fishing for reciprocal feedback, could we make positives anonymous?

Or is the solution to allow only one-way feedback?

zip_disk's idea of linked feedback, if I understand it correctly, is kind of like that (for negatives). If you want to challenge a feedback, you can't write a response or leave a revenge feedback. You isue a challenge and a mod decides in favour of one side or neutral.

KoolBak · Post by **KoolBak** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:26 am

gaaaa...my head hurts after that...

Lack, you know I LOVE your site...whatever you decide is cool....my issue would be the inability to leave a feedback like i did recently for panzermeyer...it was a positive "revenge" to a negative FB left for him...I did not follow the rules, but again, I have only left 3 FB's for over 30 games with him....was it wrong? I hope not, but it sure as hell made me feel better....tough situation - I do not envy you this. Good luck my friend.....

Phobia · Post by **Phobia** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:31 pm

if you want to get rid of people posting postives that others gave, why noit have a feedback respose for positives too?

but it does make me feel bad if someone sends me one and i dont reply back...

kc-jake · Post by **kc-jake** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:42 pm

I think there should be neutral feedback, since sometimes a comment can be made without it being positive or negative.

KoolBak · Post by **KoolBak** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:02 pm

Interesting...that is an option at ebay....hmmmmm

Good suggestion-

alster · Post by **alster** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:46 pm

Well. If there's a feedback option there will be badly formulated feedback, angry feedback, cursing feedback, juvenile feedback etc.

And, there will be "revenge" feedback. Both positive and negative.

But, what is revenge? How can one tell? In many cases people don't get along. Then, as pointed out, it will be merely a matter of who writes the first feedback that determines who writes the revenge feedback.

I normally don't write negative feedback. Simply because I don't care. I've done it two times because two guys pissed me off in one game. For some reason, one of those was deemed to be revenge feedback despite the fact that I took very good care to follow the guidelines. But, I don't care. Why not let the system live it's own life?

ttocs · Post by **ttocs** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:48 pm

Revenge feedback happened to me too, luckily enough for me i got it cleared,
but I think the only real solution is to tell players "if you have revenge feedback, please contact a moterator" and have a moderater fix it for the people who do care about feedback, and if you dont have enough moderators, mabye hire some new ones, sorry lack.

P.S. I would rather lose five games then get a negative feedback, pedtronicus