Who desrves the Iron Throne?

[Symmetry]

Bran did shit.

He certainly got a lot of screen time for it, with no explanation yet. Plus. once again, the only thing he did say is that he isn't Bran. Chaos is a ladder, my friend.

[jimboston]

Bran did shit.

He certainly got a lot of screen time for it, with no explanation yet. Plus. once again, the only thing he did say is that he isn't Bran. Chaos is a ladder, my friend.

Seriously though... for several seasons they have been making it seem like The Three Eyed Raven (TTER) was somehow going to be instrumental in stopping the Night King and the dead army. They even had it set up so the Night King would go to Bran... as if he (the Night King) knew that he had to eliminate TTER,the implication being that TTER was somehow the real threat to the Night King. So the Night King dutifully (enabling the story to move forward) went after Bran/TTER putting himself at great risk. Then Arya stabs him with some brittle rock and the Night King and his army are gone!

Aside from being bait, luring the Night King to the God’s Wood where Arya could get him, what did Bran/TTER do?

Why did the Night King feel he had to go after TTER?

You can explain why Bran/TTER knew the Night King would come for him... cause he has ‘the sight’. Fine.

I think this whole TTER subplot is gonna get dropped and they’ll never tie it in... 20% of the plot of the last 7 seasons is useless.

[Symmetry]

Bran did shit.

He certainly got a lot of screen time for it, with no explanation yet. Plus. once again, the only thing he did say is that he isn't Bran. Chaos is a ladder, my friend.

Seriously though... for several seasons they have been making it seem like The Three Eyed Raven (TTER) was somehow going to be instrumental in stopping the Night King and the dead army. They even had it set up so the Night King would go to Bran... as if he (the Night King) knew that he had to eliminate TTER,the implication being that TTER was somehow the real threat to the Night King. So the Night King dutifully (enabling the story to move forward) went after Bran/TTER putting himself at great risk. Then Arya stabs him with some brittle rock and the Night King and his army are gone!

Aside from being bait, luring the Night King to the God’s Wood where Arya could get him, what did Bran/TTER do?

Why did the Night King feel he had to go after TTER?

You can explain why Bran/TTER knew the Night King would come for him... cause he has ‘the sight’. Fine.

I think this whole TTER subplot is gonna get dropped and they’ll never tie it in... 20% of the plot of the last 7 seasons is useless.

Honestly, I think it will be more important in the books too. My out loud comment for Bran waking up at the end of the Battle of Winterfell was "Hey guys..what'd I miss...?".

[mookiemcgee]

I mean isn't it sort of accepted already that Bran is the lord of light? The yin to the yang that is the night king?

I feel like part 1 of the meta story (NK vs LOL) is now over and done with, Bran (LOL) being the winner. took 8 seasons to ramp up to, and then ended rather quickly in one episode the first time they meet face to face.

I can't imagine any situation where Bran becomes King that wouldn't feel totally broken within the meta story. I think his part of the story is all but over and done now save some type of epilogue type explaining of what becomes of Bran (hint: they add raisins to him and he turns into a breakfast cereal)

[mookiemcgee]

Bran did shit.

I don't remember this episode, was it in a toilet or just out in the woods or something?

[Dukasaur]

Aside from being bait, luring the Night King to the God’s Wood where Arya could get him, what did Bran/TTER do?

Why is that not enough?

Luring the King into a vulnerable place made all the difference in the world. Without Bran, the Night King could have stayed hidden behind his army.

It's sort-of like asking a Christian, "besides sacrificing himself to redeem the world's sins, what the hell did Jesus do for us?"

I mean isn't it sort of accepted already that Bran is the lord of light? The yin to the yang that is the night king?

No, not at all. They are opposites, yes, but not in on a light/dark scale. The Night King was a creation of the Children of the Forest, a golem essentially, who was supposed to defend the forest against the invading Men, but exceeded expectations and became a monster. Sort-of a cross between Frankenstein and Walter E. Kurtz. Or between a necromancer and Universal Soldier. Parallels abound; there's any number of books and movies about genetically-enhanced or artificially designed killers going off the reservation. That part is fairly-well explained; the origin of the 3-eyed raven is not. However, what little evidence we have point to the 3-eyed raven also being a creation of the Children of the Forest, a clean-up-our-own-mess machine. They may be enemies, but ultimately they are both servants of the Children of the Forest using the magic of the Old Gods.

The lord of light is a recent arrival, an outsider. There's no mention of the lord of light before the fall of Old Valyria; it's entirely possible he's connected to the same type of magic that led to its downfall. Which in turn is connected to the birth of the dragons; it's stated in several places that dragons are not natural and were invented through sorcery in Old Valyria and that the Fall may have been the result of sorcerers playing with fire just a little too much. I'm speculating, of course, but the first mentions of the lord of light date from that time and that part of the world.

The yin and yang of Martin's vision is explicit in the title -- A Song of Ice and Fire. Within that continuum, the Night King and the 3-eyed raven both come from the Ice side. The lord of light and the dragons come from the Fire side.

[Symmetry]

Much as I love GoT, the answer to a lot of the big questions about why and how stuff happened is just going to be:

Wizards did it.

[mookiemcgee]

The yin and yang of Martin's vision is explicit in the title -- A Song of Ice and Fire. Within that continuum, the Night King and the 3-eyed raven both come from the Ice side. The lord of light and the dragons come from the Fire side.

Maybe your right duk

[strike wolf]

Wow...that episode was ummm...yeah...fruck

[jimboston]

Wow...that episode was ummm...yeah...fruck

Agreed.

Bran still did shit.

He did shit in the North, but he did shit. We just didn’t have to watch him do shit. I don’t care if I see him again or not.

[strike wolf]

Wow...that episode was ummm...yeah...fruck

Agreed.

Bran still did shit.

He did shit in the North, but he did shit. We just didn’t have to watch him do shit. I don’t care if I see him again or not.

He's still got to go back in time to drive Aerys insane to set all of this up.

[betiko]

I ll read the entire thread tomorrow that i missed... but without reading you guys... my money has been on tyrion since episode 2.... and he remaries sansa.
Jon will die. I ve always thought that this wouldn t end with daenerys and jon.

[mrswdk]

George RR Martin might possibly write the sort of clever twists being speculated in this thread but unfortunately he's run out of book and whoever is writing the plot for the show comes from Hollywood Cut-And-Paste School of Screenwriting. The writing's been so stupid this season, there's no way they have anything clever saved in the bag for the final episode. It's just going to be the predictable cliche of Jon and Dany ending up in conflict, Dany definitely dying and possibly Jon as well, and someone who we all think is very worth ending up on the throne or possibly even doing something even more retarded like founding a republic right as the show ends.

[betiko]

George RR Martin might possibly write the sort of clever twists being speculated in this thread but unfortunately he's run out of book and whoever is writing the plot for the show comes from Hollywood Cut-And-Paste School of Screenwriting. The writing's been so stupid this season, there's no way they have anything clever saved in the bag for the final episode. It's just going to be the predictable cliche of Jon and Dany ending up in conflict, Dany definitely dying and possibly Jon as well, and someone who we all think is very worth ending up on the throne or possibly even doing something even more retarded like founding a republic right as the show ends.

so you basically agree wih me.

Also... is Tyrion daenerys's half sibling and Jon's uncle?

[betiko]

oh... also let's play a little game.

Who will end up with each province?

stormlands: Gendry Baratheon
The Vale: no fucking clue
Iron Isles: Yara Greyjoy
The reach: Bron
The North: Sansa Stark
Dorne: no fucking clue
Riverlands: no fucking clue.
Crownlands: Tyrion Targaryen

Brienne, I'd give you the Vale. Hope Jamie got you pregnant.
Arya, I'd give you the Riverlands. I mean come on, you're half Tully and you need to settle down.
I think they mentioned something about a ruler in Dorne but I have no fucking clue of what's going on there... any of the bastard assassin is still alive? I don't even remember if there is any Martel alive but I think not

[mrswdk]

https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-gam ... nt-writers

[Dukasaur]

George RR Martin might possibly write the sort of clever twists being speculated in this thread but unfortunately he's run out of book and whoever is writing the plot for the show comes from Hollywood Cut-And-Paste School of Screenwriting. The writing's been so stupid this season, there's no way they have anything clever saved in the bag for the final episode. It's just going to be the predictable cliche of Jon and Dany ending up in conflict, Dany definitely dying and possibly Jon as well, and someone who we all think is very worth ending up on the throne or possibly even doing something even more retarded like founding a republic right as the show ends.

What the f*ck are you on about?

I didn't participate in this discussion this week because I didn't have time to watch the last episode until now. Finally watched it, and it was perfect in every way. Every fucking way perfect. Almost always there's been something I disagreed with until now, but this episode everything was flawless.

How can you possibly criticize the writing on this? This was brilliant, everything developing exactly as it should.

They lost their way for a couple seasons, but this season they are finally back on track. It just doesn't get any better than this. Every episode this season has been magnificent.

[betiko]

George RR Martin might possibly write the sort of clever twists being speculated in this thread but unfortunately he's run out of book and whoever is writing the plot for the show comes from Hollywood Cut-And-Paste School of Screenwriting. The writing's been so stupid this season, there's no way they have anything clever saved in the bag for the final episode. It's just going to be the predictable cliche of Jon and Dany ending up in conflict, Dany definitely dying and possibly Jon as well, and someone who we all think is very worth ending up on the throne or possibly even doing something even more retarded like founding a republic right as the show ends.

What the f*ck are you on about?

I didn't participate in this discussion this week because I didn't have time to watch the last episode until now. Finally watched it, and it was perfect in every way. Every fucking way perfect. Almost always there's been something I disagreed with until now, but this episode everything was flawless.

How can you possibly criticize the writing on this? This was brilliant, everything developing exactly as it should.

They lost their way for a couple seasons, but this season they are finally back on track. It just doesn't get any better than this. Every episode this season has been magnificent.

Wow. The last episode was magnificent ?
Everybody is going out of character... I was totally fine with episodes 1-4 but 5 was fucking shit. Very smelly and thrown in a rush in a dirty toilet with no time to wipe the ass. TERRIBLE. Just find one person who would agree with you.. you are literally the first one to say it was great

[riskllama]

only problem i had w/it was that Drogon was a bit too overwhelmingly powerful & seemingly immune to any sort of damage, whereas Rhaegal was taken out far too easily, imo - the episode before...*shrugs*

[Dukasaur]

George RR Martin might possibly write the sort of clever twists being speculated in this thread but unfortunately he's run out of book and whoever is writing the plot for the show comes from Hollywood Cut-And-Paste School of Screenwriting. The writing's been so stupid this season, there's no way they have anything clever saved in the bag for the final episode. It's just going to be the predictable cliche of Jon and Dany ending up in conflict, Dany definitely dying and possibly Jon as well, and someone who we all think is very worth ending up on the throne or possibly even doing something even more retarded like founding a republic right as the show ends.

What the f*ck are you on about?

I didn't participate in this discussion this week because I didn't have time to watch the last episode until now. Finally watched it, and it was perfect in every way. Every fucking way perfect. Almost always there's been something I disagreed with until now, but this episode everything was flawless.

How can you possibly criticize the writing on this? This was brilliant, everything developing exactly as it should.

They lost their way for a couple seasons, but this season they are finally back on track. It just doesn't get any better than this. Every episode this season has been magnificent.

Wow. The last episode was magnificent ?
Everybody is going out of character... I was totally fine with episodes 1-4 but 5 was fucking shit. Very smelly and thrown in a rush in a dirty toilet with no time to wipe the ass. TERRIBLE. Just find one person who would agree with you.. you are literally the first one to say it was great

Even if a million people were to disagree with me they're still wrong. It was a great episode, incredibly dynamic.

And who was out of character? Nobody. Everybody reached the fulfillment of their character.

Daenerys was perfectly in character. Her self-rightous megalomania has been growing throughout the series and finally came to its logical conclusion. Right from her early days when she burned down the House of the Undying, slaughtered the Masters of Astapor, crucified the Masters of Meereen, etc., etc., we saw that she was only too happy to fight fire with fire and tyranny with tyranny. Yes, she was dealing with evil men, but two wrongs don't make a right. Don't tell me that you didn't see her growing into a mad megaloman?

Varys was perfectly in character. He ended as he began -- plotting against the current tyrant and looking for a better ruler, as he has always done. As always was stoic in facing the fact that when you play with fire you might get burned, and faced his execution with composure and calm.

The Tyrion-Jaime relationship was flawlessly symmetrical. When Tyrion had been imprisoned and sentenced to die, Jaime had risked Cercei's wrath to free him. It was perfectly, absolutely fitting that with Jaime imprisoned and scheduled for death, Tyrion would risk Daenarys' wrath to return the favour and free him. We've seen many times that their brotherly bond rises above the politics.

For Jaime to risk everything and go and try to save Cercei, and spend the last seconds of his life with her when it became impossible to save her, was perfectly in character. He's never shied away from telling us that nothing matters above Cercei.

For Jon Snow to obey his promise and stay loyal to Daenerys was perfectly in character. Over and over he's shown that he takes his promises seriously and his loyalties matter more than saving his own skin or furthering his own goals.

The fight between the Hound and the Mountain is probably the most 100% obvious character fulfillment. Right from season 1 we've seen that one coming.

Arya was the only one who had a bit of a character shift, but it was a logical and expected one. She's done enough killing, it was time to move on. Killing the Night King was the pinnacle of her career as an assassin. Killing Cercei would have been almost anticlimactic, sort of like Mike Tyson going and beating up some kids in the schoolyard. Had she encountered Cercei she would have killed her of course, but she luckily didn't, and trying to rescue some innocent people made sense as showing that she's turned her back on just being a killer and trying to be something more. I think the Hound's final speech reached her. He was right; at some point she had to get past being pure Assassin and start living life or be consumed. It was perfectly logical for her to see that he was right.

Even the death of Euron was perfectly character-fulfilling. If I had to pick what would kill him, I would have said hubris. Sure enough, there he was, swaggering and bragging when he thought Jaime was dead, and sure enough, Jaime kept his mouth shut and just killed him.

Try as I might, I can't imagine anyone who was in the slightest out of character. Who were you referring to?

Now, episode 6, I'm not very happy with. Episodes 3 and 5 were to me, the high points of the series, perfectly written, perfectly acted, perfectly produced.

[tkr4lf]

This whole season sucked and the last episode was just the shit icing on top of the shit cake. I didn't enjoy a single minute of that last episode. Such a shame too, I've loved this show since day one and now it's just a bitter taste left in my mouth. Shame.

[waauw]

George RR Martin might possibly write the sort of clever twists being speculated in this thread but unfortunately he's run out of book and whoever is writing the plot for the show comes from Hollywood Cut-And-Paste School of Screenwriting. The writing's been so stupid this season, there's no way they have anything clever saved in the bag for the final episode. It's just going to be the predictable cliche of Jon and Dany ending up in conflict, Dany definitely dying and possibly Jon as well, and someone who we all think is very worth ending up on the throne or possibly even doing something even more retarded like founding a republic right as the show ends.

What the f*ck are you on about?

I didn't participate in this discussion this week because I didn't have time to watch the last episode until now. Finally watched it, and it was perfect in every way. Every fucking way perfect. Almost always there's been something I disagreed with until now, but this episode everything was flawless.

How can you possibly criticize the writing on this? This was brilliant, everything developing exactly as it should.

They lost their way for a couple seasons, but this season they are finally back on track. It just doesn't get any better than this. Every episode this season has been magnificent.

Wow. The last episode was magnificent ?
Everybody is going out of character... I was totally fine with episodes 1-4 but 5 was fucking shit. Very smelly and thrown in a rush in a dirty toilet with no time to wipe the ass. TERRIBLE. Just find one person who would agree with you.. you are literally the first one to say it was great

Even if a million people were to disagree with me they're still wrong. It was a great episode, incredibly dynamic.

And who was out of character? Nobody. Everybody reached the fulfillment of their character.

Daenerys was perfectly in character. Her self-rightous megalomania has been growing throughout the series and finally came to its logical conclusion. Right from her early days when she burned down the House of the Undying, slaughtered the Masters of Astapor, crucified the Masters of Meereen, etc., etc., we saw that she was only too happy to fight fire with fire and tyranny with tyranny. Yes, she was dealing with evil men, but two wrongs don't make a right. Don't tell me that you didn't see her growing into a mad megaloman?

Varys was perfectly in character. He ended as he began -- plotting against the current tyrant and looking for a better ruler, as he has always done. As always was stoic in facing the fact that when you play with fire you might get burned, and faced his execution with composure and calm.

The Tyrion-Jaime relationship was flawlessly symmetrical. When Tyrion had been imprisoned and sentenced to die, Jaime had risked Cercei's wrath to free him. It was perfectly, absolutely fitting that with Jaime imprisoned and scheduled for death, Tyrion would risk Daenarys' wrath to return the favour and free him. We've seen many times that their brotherly bond rises above the politics.

For Jaime to risk everything and go and try to save Cercei, and spend the last seconds of his life with her when it became impossible to save her, was perfectly in character. He's never shied away from telling us that nothing matters above Cercei.

For Jon Snow to obey his promise and stay loyal to Daenerys was perfectly in character. Over and over he's shown that he takes his promises seriously and his loyalties matter more than saving his own skin or furthering his own goals.

The fight between the Hound and the Mountain is probably the most 100% obvious character fulfillment. Right from season 1 we've seen that one coming.

Arya was the only one who had a bit of a character shift, but it was a logical and expected one. She's done enough killing, it was time to move on. Killing the Night King was the pinnacle of her career as an assassin. Killing Cercei would have been almost anticlimactic, sort of like Mike Tyson going and beating up some kids in the schoolyard. Had she encountered Cercei she would have killed her of course, but she luckily didn't, and trying to rescue some innocent people made sense as showing that she's turned her back on just being a killer and trying to be something more. I think the Hound's final speech reached her. He was right; at some point she had to get past being pure Assassin and start living life or be consumed. It was perfectly logical for her to see that he was right.

Even the death of Euron was perfectly character-fulfilling. If I had to pick what would kill him, I would have said hubris. Sure enough, there he was, swaggering and bragging when he thought Jaime was dead, and sure enough, Jaime kept his mouth shut and just killed him.

Try as I might, I can't imagine anyone who was in the slightest out of character. Who were you referring to?

Now, episode 6, I'm not very happy with. Episodes 3 and 5 were to me, the high points of the series, perfectly written, perfectly acted, perfectly produced.

I liked episode 5 as well. I felt it was well foreshadowed by the first 6 seasons. The foreshadowing done throughout seasons 7 and 8 however were terrible. So I understand why people thought of the episode as a bit of an oddball. It wasn't in line with these last two.

I don't agree with you on episode 3 though.

And obviously the rest of the season was pure shite.

[mookiemcgee]

I guess I dont understand why everyone (not just here but all over the internet) seems to hate the final episode? I thought it was fitting in every way. My only gripe is bran being king, but otherwise most of the other characters seemed to get the end to their individual story which they deserved.

Sansa gets to be queen but only of her peeps

Tyrion didnt die, didnt have to make babies with sansa, and it's still a hand of the king which was just ideal for him

John finally grew a ballsack and followed through on the less than subtle foreshadowing of what hed need to do. I'm also pretty ok with him not being king since he kind was a pushy in the political arena .... and most importantly he got his wolf back!!!

Danny's ending while predictable was fitting.

One dragon survived for a potential future GOT movie

The only character I can think of that they didnt even touch on was that creepy guy that snuck sans out of the castle in the early season before cearse could kill her... did he die in a previous episode and I missed it?

[strike wolf]

I think this may be the worst finale in tv history.

[strike wolf]

I guess I dont understand why everyone (not just here but all over the internet) seems to hate the final episode? I thought it was fitting in every way. My only gripe is bran being king, but otherwise most of the other characters seemed to get the end to their individual story which they deserved.

Sansa gets to be queen but only of her peeps

Tyrion didnt die, didnt have to make babies with sansa, and it's still a hand of the king which was just ideal for him

John finally grew a ballsack and followed through on the less than subtle foreshadowing of what hed need to do. I'm also pretty ok with him not being king since he kind was a pushy in the political arena .... and most importantly he got his wolf back!!!

Danny's ending while predictable was fitting.

One dragon survived for a potential future GOT movie

The only character I can think of that they didnt even touch on was that creepy guy that snuck sans out of the castle in the early season before cearse could kill her... did he die in a previous episode a4nd I missed it?

They destroyed any chance of a climactic finale by making the first 30 minutes 90% screen shots and then killed Dany with no fanfare. King Bran makes no fucking sense and doesn't have any satisfying feel to it since he was pretty much a non-entity in the series. What the f*ck was the point of Jon even being a Targaryen? In the end, it was all a non-factor. The only good thing that happened is that the North finally got some independence and they didn't shoehorn Arya into a marriage that didn't fit her.